Switch from Coal to Ore?

[Ayaal]

Sorry, maybe I'm to stupid, but I'm trying for almost 2 hours now and I don't get it.

Here's a Vanilla Version of my problem:

I have a iron mine next to a power plant and a coal mine next to a steel mill.

So I want my trucks to go to the iron mine/pp, pick up the ore, go to the coal mine/steel mill, drop the ore, pick up some coal and drive back to drop the coal.

Is this possible???

All I can get running is assigning coal trucks and ore trucks which just deliver their products and than go back empty, which is a huge waste of money and trucks. This can't be serious, can it? I mean... really? Or am I missing something major?

(As I mentioned, this is a Vanilla Scenario, my problem is with Milk and Food in the FIRS newGRF: bring Milk, take back Food)

[ChillCore]

You can but you'll need to use a vehicle that allows refitting.
If you can for a given vehicle will say so at the capacity line when buying them like so: "x amount of stuffs (refittable)" and then the last line will read "refittable to: X, Y, Z, ..."

eg. "ECS & FIRS Vehicle set" (<- when searching in BaNaNaS) will give you a Universal Vintage Truck that can be refitted both to food and milk, as well as modify some more vanilla vehicles to be able to be refitted.

Of course you'll need a depot at each end of the trip as refitting can only be done there.
Your orders would look something like this:
- Pick up food
- Deliver food
- Go to depot (refit to milk)
- Pick up milk
- Deliver milk
- Go to depot (refit to food)


Hope that helps ;)

ps:
Other vehicle sets are available that would also solve your prob.
Also other vehicles besides the vintage truck can be refitted in the example set above but the vintage one is the one I saw that can be refitted to both milk and food.

---------------------------------


Now for something else ...

You'll notice that you can not change NewGRF settings in a running game.
Changing NewGRF in a running game is highly discouraged and is disabled by default as it can and will cause probs later down the line (especially so when removing some and/or changing the order of them in the list); adding one is relatively safe as long as it does not affect a previous one in the list (which sometimes is the case).
I don't know how far you are in your game and if starting over is an option at this point but if restarting is not an option right now here's something you can try:

- Close the game and make a backup of your savegame.
- Open the config file and change "newgrf_developer_tools = false" to true.
- Start the game and download the NewGRF you want to add from the main menu.
- Load your game, add the vehicle set you want (dropdown with the cog symbol), save and quit to desktop.
- Go back to the config and change the setting you changed before to false again (it is a developer tool for a reason and should normally only be used for developing and when you know what you do).
- Profit?

If things do go wrong ... don't use that modified savegame when reporting bugs.
It will show in the logs that you changed the newGRF settings after starting the game and the Devs will not look at your issue ...
You still have your backup where you can re-produce your issue? right?

That being said ... I do recommend starting a new game with the desired NewGRF instead of going the naughty way.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by ChillCore:

Of course you'll need a depot at each end of the trip as refitting can only be done there.
Your orders would look something like this:
- Pick up food
- Deliver food
- Go to depot (refit to milk)
- Pick up milk
- Deliver milk
- Go to depot (refit to food)

Won't this be just as expensive, or even more expensive, than running two trucks?
Unless there is a GRF that removes refit costs, each time the truck goes to the depot, it will cost money to change it to the other cargo type.

Originally posted by Ayaal:

All I can get running is assigning coal trucks and ore trucks which just deliver their products and than go back empty, which is a huge waste of money and trucks. This can't be serious, can it? I mean... really? Or am I missing something major?

This is life. Just look at how many empty trucks drive up and down the road. They are going back to get another load after dropping one off.
Especially with things like coal and iron ore, this would be highly inaccurate.
These trucks are usually specially designed for one job, and even if they could be interchanged, they would not, as any left over iron ore would contaminate the coal.

[ChillCore]

Originally posted by Raptor:

Originally posted by ChillCore:

Of course you'll need a depot at each end of the trip as refitting can only be done there.
Your orders would look something like this:
- Pick up food
- Deliver food
- Go to depot (refit to milk)
- Pick up milk
- Deliver milk
- Go to depot (refit to food)

Won't this be just as expensive, or even more expensive, than running two trucks?
Unless there is a GRF that removes refit costs, each time the truck goes to the depot, it will cost money to change it to the other cargo type.

Yes/No/Mayhaps?

It could be more expensive if both refits cost more than half of what both deliveries bring in ... it really depends the lenght of the route, the speed and capacity of the vehicle used, the running costs of said vehicle and then some.
That's for OP to figure out :P


I remember this AI competition way back where one of them had (script) orders like this:
- Buy vehicle from depot near pick-up point
- Pick up coal
- Deliver coal
- Sell vehicle at depot near delivery point
- Rince and repeat

It did pretty well, suprisingly, as the sold vehicles were pretty new still.
I'm sure that would get boring really quick if a human player did that.

Not sure if it is still maintained or which one it was even ... the competion thread should still be there on tt-forums for those willing to search for it.

[ChillCore]

Turns out there are vehicle sets out there that have a refit cost of zero and then you can refit at stations ... something I did not know.
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=89799

[Raptor]

Originally posted by ChillCore:

Turns out there are vehicle sets out there that have a refit cost of zero and then you can refit at stations ... something I did not know.
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=89799

I was actually looking into this before, and the vehicle set I use (Road Hog 1.4.1) has $0 for refit, so yes the OP route problem would work.
BTW Road Hog is a one of my favourite vehicle sets, just found it the other day.
And if used in conjunction with Ratt Roads (variable speed limit roads) makes it a challenge to upgrade roads, as town influence really comes into play.

[Ayaal]

Hello

Thank you very much for all your help. I figured out that I can refit trains at stations, this solves my problem.

Originally posted by ChillCore:

Turns out there are vehicle sets out there that have a refit cost of zero and then you can refit at stations ... something I did not know.
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=89799

Okay... seems like my workaround also works for certain trucks. I have to look into this. Thanks!

Edit: ha! This is my own post in the tt-forums :-) I revisited the forum a day after i postet this but I couldn't find it. So I thought that I've forgotten to confirm or something and thus came here to ask the same question. But now I realised that an admin needs to confirm your post before it get's published... thank you @ChillCore, would've been rude not to answer!

Originally posted by Raptor:

This is life. Just look at how many empty trucks drive up and down the road. They are going back to get another load after dropping one off.
Especially with things like coal and iron ore, this would be highly inaccurate.
These trucks are usually specially designed for one job, and even if they could be interchanged, they would not, as any left over iron ore would contaminate the coal.

Yeah sure you can argue with realism, but to be fair, we're talking of a game where everything is driving 24/7 without refueling and a drive through one city takes several days. But I could take the realism argument with iron/coal, but not with milk/food.

Originally posted by ChillCore:

I don't know how far you are in your game and if starting over is an option at this point but if restarting is not an option right now here's something you can try:

No I've not startet a new game so far. I'm going for a re-run after several years and now I'm just looking into newGRF's and map-settings for my next run.

Originally posted by ChillCore:

I remember this AI competition way back where one of them had (script) orders like this:
- Buy vehicle from depot near pick-up point
- Pick up coal
- Deliver coal
- Sell vehicle at depot near delivery point
- Rince and repeat

This sounds like cheating with extra-steps. The idea is funny, but honestly it's cheating (imho)


Again, thanks to all of you for helping me out.

Best regards

[ChillCore]

You are welcome @Ayaal. ;)

Glad to hear you still have to start a new game and will not be going the naughty way ... you would have run into troubs sooner or later anyways while losing your savegame due to it being corrupted with unvalid data being used.

As for tt-forums and having to have your posts vetted ... that's just for a few posts and will not last.