Lives and save points

[Deepest Blue]

I really like this game but I feel like the lives system makes no sense. How many lives do we have? Is it possible to gain more? Is the deposit box save suppossed to restart with each level? I've been running the first level now ad nauseum because I seem to lose my progress completely randomly. How does this work?

[🌗 Sergio 🌓]

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

I really like this game but I feel like the lives system makes no sense. How many lives do we have? Is it possible to gain more? Is the deposit box save suppossed to restart with each level? I've been running the first level now ad nauseum because I seem to lose my progress completely randomly. How does this work?

we have hp system, hp become zero and we die and restart all lvls from scratch ( or we have another chance from mail box save point where we save).
2 yes it's suppossed to restart with each level.

[Octopus Commander]

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

I really like this game but I feel like the lives system makes no sense. How many lives do we have? Is it possible to gain more? Is the deposit box save suppossed to restart with each level? I've been running the first level now ad nauseum because I seem to lose my progress completely randomly. How does this work?

I've improved this system a lot on the last year but... maybe there's lack of clarity there.
There's two ways of saving the game.
First is by using Postal boxes. By storing a certain amount of money, you do grant some kind of checkpoint that will be there if you die and re-enter the portal. This checkpoint works one time only.

The second way of saving your run progress, is by reaching the post-boss Mall. the game file is saved when reaching it. It does not work as a checkpoint, it just saves the game so you may return to your game later.

I will be sketching on ways of showing those inner-workings on a more clearer way.
Sorry the delay!

[Denilson Sá]

Originally posted by Octopus Commander:

First is by using Postal boxes. By storing a certain amount of money, you do grant some kind of checkpoint that will be there if you die and re-enter the portal. This checkpoint works one time only.

A cheap way to make it more intuitive is by adding a mailbox icon next to the "resume" option of the portal menu. That will show those things are connected.

But how to communicate it's single-use? Maybe an animation showing that menu item being consumed (fading off or something). Or an animation of the player being transported forward in the level up to a mail box. Maybe that, maybe the player should come out from a mailbox, and doing so could show the mailbox being damaged in the process.

But does it even make sense? Maybe a phone booth is a better option. Plus, it becomes yet another reference to pop-culture. (The Matrix)

[Deepest Blue]

Originally posted by Octopus Commander:

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

I really like this game but I feel like the lives system makes no sense. How many lives do we have? Is it possible to gain more? Is the deposit box save suppossed to restart with each level? I've been running the first level now ad nauseum because I seem to lose my progress completely randomly. How does this work?

I've improved this system a lot on the last year but... maybe there's lack of clarity there.
There's two ways of saving the game.
First is by using Postal boxes. By storing a certain amount of money, you do grant some kind of checkpoint that will be there if you die and re-enter the portal. This checkpoint works one time only.

The second way of saving your run progress, is by reaching the post-boss Mall. the game file is saved when reaching it. It does not work as a checkpoint, it just saves the game so you may return to your game later.

I will be sketching on ways of showing those inner-workings on a more clearer way.
Sorry the delay!

Love this game, but been stuck running the same beginning area over and over. Not sure I'll be able to keep at it long enough to acces most of the game because it got pretty repetitive. Overall I think this game kicks ass, I just don't have the patience to play the first area repeatedly whenever I die more than once. I understand how it's supposed to function, it's just way too fragile of a progression system.

[navalops]

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

Originally posted by Octopus Commander:

I've improved this system a lot on the last year but... maybe there's lack of clarity there.
There's two ways of saving the game.
First is by using Postal boxes. By storing a certain amount of money, you do grant some kind of checkpoint that will be there if you die and re-enter the portal. This checkpoint works one time only.

The second way of saving your run progress, is by reaching the post-boss Mall. the game file is saved when reaching it. It does not work as a checkpoint, it just saves the game so you may return to your game later.

I will be sketching on ways of showing those inner-workings on a more clearer way.
Sorry the delay!

Love this game, but been stuck running the same beginning area over and over. Not sure I'll be able to keep at it long enough to acces most of the game because it got pretty repetitive. Overall I think this game kicks ass, I just don't have the patience to play the first area repeatedly whenever I die more than once. I understand how it's supposed to function, it's just way too fragile of a progression system.

Just reduce the difficulty.
It is easier if you choose "everyone nice" in newgame.

[Deepest Blue]

Originally posted by navalops:

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

Love this game, but been stuck running the same beginning area over and over. Not sure I'll be able to keep at it long enough to acces most of the game because it got pretty repetitive. Overall I think this game kicks ass, I just don't have the patience to play the first area repeatedly whenever I die more than once. I understand how it's supposed to function, it's just way too fragile of a progression system.

Just reduce the difficulty.
It is easier if you choose "everyone nice" in newgame.

that's the problem, the difficulty is fine. it's starting over every time that isn't fun.

[Denilson Sá]

I wish the portal menu would work as a level select, letting me fast-forward to any section, given I had completed that section already.

That could as well be an unlockable: you have to complete each section at least 5 times before you can skip to it. Or each section skip/teleporter could be an item from the shop, with higher costs than the weapons.

Maybe each section could be a new door (purchase-able from the shop, like those expanded sections of the basement), instead of using the teleporter menu. But I also understand this may require a bit more modeling and level/interior design work.

The player would then have a choice: fast-forward with fewer weapons and less ammo, or start a bit earlier to be able to collect enough items.

[Deepest Blue]

Originally posted by Denilson Sá:

I wish the portal menu would work as a level select, letting me fast-forward to any section, given I had completed that section already.

That could as well be an unlockable: you have to complete each section at least 5 times before you can skip to it. Or each section skip/teleporter could be an item from the shop, with higher costs than the weapons.

Maybe each section could be a new door (purchase-able from the shop, like those expanded sections of the basement), instead of using the teleporter menu. But I also understand this may require a bit more modeling and level/interior design work.

The player would then have a choice: fast-forward with fewer weapons and less ammo, or start a bit earlier to be able to collect enough items.

The game is going for roguelike mechanics instead of a mission-based campaign, but somehow roguelike progression has never felt this fragile in other games. When I lose all my progress I don't feel like I lost, i feel like I got cheated. It doesn't feel satisfying at all.

[Denilson Sá]

Oh, well… I was having a great run since the beginning. I was late in the third sector, half-way through the bank, until I got killed because I got surrounded with nowhere to run, and I didn't have my main weapon anymore. I activated the gen2 bot for the first time, and then I pressed E to assign a purpose. I didn't know it would give my weapon to the robot. Oh, and I completely forgot about pressing H to do the suit transformation or whatever, as that's something the game didn't train me to do. In fact, I still don't know what pressing H would achieve, as when I was curious about it the only thing I saw was a slow progress bar.

I got over 16K of money in that single run, but there was nothing else to buy on the shop. Then I started playing again, restarting from my last checkpoint. Even though I could start/resume the run with two weapons, the game only gave me ammo for one of them. I quickly ran out of ammo, and quickly died. Now I have to restart from the beginning again. I don't want to.

I know that's the nature of the rogue-like genre. But rogue-likes don't have persistent progression, while rogue-lites do. And some rogue-lite games increase the difficulty after certain points. The game Rogue Legacy is one example, and it also always restarts from the beginning. However, due to the non-linear level layout, it's possible to skip a huge portion of the castle and go straight to whatever section you're interested in.

This game is very linear. I'd be fine with a permanent checkpoint after defeating each boss (i.e. at each sector/city/place). I feel I won't ever uncover all the secrets from the third sector, as doing so requires a multi-hour commitment to playing everything since the first sector, every time.


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It may be a game bug. I once skipped one mail drop box (because I had used another one a few minutes earlier), and I think the game forgot my last-deposited mail box.

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I just noticed the lever at the side of the portal menu can be interacted, and it claims to replace the fixed-run with a random run. I haven't tried it yet.

[Wisp Cat]

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

The game is going for roguelike mechanics instead of a mission-based campaign, but somehow roguelike progression has never felt this fragile in other games. When I lose all my progress I don't feel like I lost, i feel like I got cheated. It doesn't feel satisfying at all.

I don't know about you, but I have certainly felt cheated when my character has died in rogue and rogue-like games.

Still... perhaps the store page should have a paragraph about progression, death and maybe difficulty, so that people understand?

[Octopus Commander]

Originally posted by Wisp Cat:

I don't know about you, but I have certainly felt cheated when my character has died in rogue and rogue-like games.

Originally posted by Denilson Sá:

It may be a game bug. I once skipped one mail drop box (because I had used another one a few minutes earlier), and I think the game forgot my last-deposited mail box.

Originally posted by Deepest Blue:

The game is going for roguelike mechanics instead of a mission-based campaign, but somehow roguelike progression has never felt this fragile in other games. When I lose all my progress I don't feel like I lost, i feel like I got cheated. It doesn't feel satisfying at all.

Hello everyone, sorry the delay!

There's some very good points I've added to my to-do list. The bigger elephant is this lack of clarity on how the checkpoint system works - I will be working to make it way more clearer. I will try to upload a patch with this new solution on Valentines.
Thanks everyone for commenting on this topic!

[Denilson Sá]

Since I've compared to a couple other games (Rogue Legacy, Sonic 3 save system), there is another one that came to my mind:

Spelunky is a pretty good but also pretty hard rogue-like 2D platformer. I never progressed much further, but I know you can unlock shortcuts[spelunky.fandom.com] to skip the earlier levels. And the same is possible in Spelunky 2. The conditions are roughly: you need to reach the given checkpoint "enough times", you need to pay a certain amount of money, you need to give away a certain item. Afterwards, there will be a new door that skips ahead.

If something similar is implemented in Fida Puti Samurai, we could have a loyalty card where the user gets stamps for being a frequent "buyer" (or frequent customer) of a certain store. This store could either be the mid-level mart, or a (new) store at the intermission mall. After completing the card with all the stamps, the user can "buy" the shortcut (which could be bought from the web shop, and which could be rendered as another door in the basement).

[Octopus Commander]

Hi Denilson!

I'm kinda sold to the current system - I will keep working on it's flaws to make everything flow better. There's some reasons, like changing other mechanics tied to the current proposal, among other things.

Originally posted by Denilson Sá:

we could have a loyalty card where the user gets stamps for being a frequent "buyer" (or frequent customer) of a certain store. This store could either be the mid-level mart, or a (new) store at the intermission mall. After completing the card with all the stamps, the user can "buy" the shortcut (which could be bought from the web shop, and which could be rendered as another door in the basement).

This is one hell of a idea! Still, not sure for Fidaputi now but - definitely a good idea.