What are the mechanics behind Feudalism rebellions?

[Itharus]

While running a Feudalism I had several uneventful power changes, then one where literally half my worlds rebelled. Many of my garrison troops switched sides and attacked the worlds they were on alongside the rebellious population. It was insanely disruptive and killed a few billion, broke a lot of planetary facilities, and caused infrastructure damage across all rebelling worlds.

Ok. Cool.

But why? I had two planets in my empire that were unhappy -- recently conquered worlds with unassimilated population. Neither world rebelled. Of the worlds that did rebel, about half were at 5 happiness prior to the coup (auto tax at work), and the other half were untaxed and mostly rocking like 35-55 happiness. One of the worlds to rebel was an outpost, even.

I can't make heads nor tails of why the given planets rebelled. I really want to understand the mechanic of this government because I enjoy counter play. Are there mechanics at work? Or is it purely RNG? If it's entirely RNG chance every 20 years and there's no counter play... that would be frustrating.

I had large garrisons, but given that many forces on the rebelling planets joined the rebellion that doesn't seem to be any kind of real counter. I did have some invasion fleets loaded for bear, and I was able to reinforce worlds with those, so that *might* counter the rebellion if you're near enough. If you retake the world though, everyone will hate you for "conquering an independent". Worse, some worlds might join a nearby empire -- an event for which you have 0 recourse other than war, which is obviously problematic if they joined an ally.

I did not witness any fleet forces joining the rebellion -- is that possible? That could be absolutely crippling, if it is.

So does anyone know the mechanics of what makes what worlds rebel in Feudalism government leadership changes?

[ERutins]

If you're not sure, upload a save file for us. In my experience, managing taxes, happiness and garrisons does help mitigate the coups that happen every 20 years or so in a Feudal empire. Is it possible you were hit with more than one negative happiness event at the same time for that big rebellion?

[Itharus]

Originally posted by ERutins:

If you're not sure, upload a save file for us. In my experience, managing taxes, happiness and garrisons does help mitigate the coups that happen every 20 years or so in a Feudal empire. Is it possible you were hit with more than one negative happiness event at the same time for that big rebellion?

I'm not complaining or reporting a bug, I'm just curious as to what the mechanics are behind it so that I can prepare for it better.

I don't think I had any happiness issues aside from a couple recently conquered worlds (that didn't rebel). The auto-tax is set to maintain 5 happiness. I know the event is -20 happiness, which would take it to -15, which is where some shenanigans can happen sometimes iirc. But the auto-tax should adjust for that, right? Do you always rebel at -15 immediately? I didn't think so... if that's all this is I can change the auto tax policy.

I did have several high happiness areas revolt though, too, which is why I'm questioning what triggers things. Again though, I'm not upset, not complaining, not even suspecting a bug. I just wanted to know more. Thanks :)

[Kosmo-not]

Perhaps its the auto-taxation that is triggering it as it bounces around to find the optimal point to reach the happiness target?

[Itharus]

Originally posted by Kosmo-not:

Perhaps its the auto-taxation that is triggering it as it bounces around to find the optimal point to reach the happiness target?

I don't think so. I was running another feudalism game earlier today to try and hunt down a bug and it had a coup with the thing on auto tax and it was fine. It just lowered the taxes automatically to sustain happiness. It dipped negative for like half a second before the game adjusted it.

[SgtScum]

Isn't feudalism more suited for a wartime condition where you flip to it when you go to war but when the war is over you return to your previous government?

[Nightskies]

I had assumed a feudal government will assuredly fracture- every time in memory I assigned it to an empire since the Mortalen update, including my own, its always had a big split. That is, if it survived long enough (typically 60-80ish years). In my mind, it is a question of when, not if.

It doesn't tell us anywhere that this is the case. Its just based on observation, not enough times to be sure, but consistent enough to guess that's how it is.

While it seems to be RNG tied to a leadership change, there seems to be more at play. Purely guessing, I think the empire needs to be of sufficient size that a distinct empire can rise. It appears to grab a chunk of systems, not just at random. So a 'side' or 'chunk' of the empire fractures. I would guess that a colony is selected as a capital, and it goes from there. If all it needs is a single unhappy colony, it is only a matter of time.

As far as I know, it can't be outright prevented. Because of that, I use it as a handicap for the empire I give it to. A very big handicap.

A minor concession: I've seen AI feudal empires excelling before the civil war. And when playing as them, their hyper-aggressive capability, if utilized, can be very appealing, and I've handled the civil wars easily enough.

It's easily the hardest government to 'win' with, most of all because of the civil war mechanic, I think. Even if it is technically preventable.

[Itharus]

This was the 4th coup that was the big one that actually had rebellions.

I just can't place what sets it off.

[Itharus]

Originally posted by ERutins:

If you're not sure, upload a save file for us. In my experience, managing taxes, happiness and garrisons does help mitigate the coups that happen every 20 years or so in a Feudal empire. Is it possible you were hit with more than one negative happiness event at the same time for that big rebellion?

So going back to this...

Are rebellions guaranteed? Does a higher happiness on a world that has opted to rebel give it less forces? Do less of the garrison units join the rebellion? How does it mitigate things?

Right now at a glance it feels so random and unpreventable. Even the worlds that choose to rebel seem random and can range from feeble to crippling depending on the state of your overall empire.

The reputation hit from reconquering worlds that go independent feels excessively out sized too, compared to reputation hits from everything else. And when worlds join other factions it can be particularly devastating to your game.