Endless War and Awful Warscore

[TheMac]

Just came back to the game and wanted to try it on normal difficulty to see if I could learn about the changes in the DLC. I'm playing as Ackdarian and I'm about 150 or so years into the game. The Shakturi have arrived and they allied with some Boskara and Dhayut empires.

I have +500k warscore on everyone but the Shakturi and I can't get any of the other races to peace. My warscore is -9 and falling as well. It just seems as though it's an endless war at this point.

Is that the rest of the game? Endless war for 200 years or is there a way to get some of the normal empires who have allied with the Shakturi to accept a peace? Thanks.

[TheMac]

This is just nuts. My largest fleets are 25-30k and I've got maybe six, 300k Shakturi fleets heading for my planets. How am I supposed to stop that.

All settings are on default, and keep in mind this is Normal difficulty. Most empire fleets coming at me are 5k to 16k on the high side, with the most dominant race having one fleet of 36k which I swatted down very quickly. I guess I can see why the galaxy fell last time.

Just checked and all the Shakturi allies have between 65k to 100k total fleet power while the Shakturi themselves have about 3 million. I have 372k fleet power.

[Bethencourt]

Maybe the shakturi events are too early for your game? How is your setting of it?

[TheMac]

Originally posted by Bethencourt:

Maybe the shakturi events are too early for your game? How is your setting of it?

Yes, thank you. Everything is default. This game is lost (on normal difficulty). I'll have to start over and set them to show up later. What a surprise and not much fun at all. Just getting wiped out with no way to stop the war. My empire's fleet strength was greater than all the other empire's combined fleet strength, except the Shakturi who had 10x what I was fielding. My allies were useless to say the least.

[ZumZoom]

I don't know if it's my starting conditions or what, but I get a challenge only when I set them to arrive early.

A tip for your next game - when you get the first news of Shakturi, which unlocks the two techs (psychic something) - research that right away, it delays their coming by at least a decade.
As for a strategy when they are much stronger than you, here's what I do. Build planetary defense facilities on ALL your colonies, or at least on biggest and most important ones. Preferrably have v2 versions. I Build at least Ion cannon + Planetary shield, Beam weapon and or Fighter bay. Then the rest of the planetary guns (torpedoes, mines, missiles). I could be wrong about the order of missile weapons, but Ion cannon alone can decimate mid sized fleets pretty fast.
If you can research (crash if you can) Planetary Shield v3 in about 5 years or less - go for it, your planets will become invulnerable (provided you have some garrisons to protect from easy invasions). Same for Ion cannon v3.
After a while Shaks will run out of ships and you can start pushing back.

[omnius]

Why wasn't the Shakturi included in that thread poll about what race is overpowered the most? It sure looks like they are OP by too much. More like they're geared to provide the absolute best players a challenge while overpowering casual gamers. I'm glad I'm waiting on buying the Shakturi DLC for another 6 months or so when m y next big Matrix annual discount coupon comes along.

[Bethencourt]

Originally posted by omnius:

Why wasn't the Shakturi included in that thread poll about what race is overpowered the most? It sure looks like they are OP by too much. More like they're geared to provide the absolute best players a challenge while overpowering casual gamers. I'm glad I'm waiting on buying the Shakturi DLC for another 6 months or so when m y next big Matrix annual discount coupon comes along.

In the game settings you can deactivate their arrival but get all the rest of the content. If you put them to appear very late you can compete against them. One of the good things of this game is how flexible it is to match your tastes.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by Bethencourt:

Originally posted by omnius:

Why wasn't the Shakturi included in that thread poll about what race is overpowered the most? It sure looks like they are OP by too much. More like they're geared to provide the absolute best players a challenge while overpowering casual gamers. I'm glad I'm waiting on buying the Shakturi DLC for another 6 months or so when m y next big Matrix annual discount coupon comes along.

In the game settings you can deactivate their arrival but get all the rest of the content. If you put them to appear very late you can compete against them. One of the good things of this game is how flexible it is to match your tastes.

Thank you. That last beatdown was so severe that it's hard to go back to the game and find any enjoyment. I did start a new game with the arrival delayed one step so we'll see how it goes. Seems like removing them all together would defeat the purpose of purchasing the expansion, though I understand there is some flexibility.

I'll see how the next game goes. TY.

[russlog6]

Shakturi become a lot easier if you delay their arrival - try latest. Also, they really only have the one 300k fleet initially and that keeps reducing through attrition. Unless they get a pushover win against a weak race (and that becomes harder the later they arrive), they really become easy beats. They actually struggle for resources after their initial arrival and struggle to build new fleets quickly.

It's actually more scary finding out that the Shak 300K fleet has been destroyed, because it means someone out there has the ability to do that.

Of course the big priority is to make sure you conquer a Shak planet before the other races, so you can accelerate your own expansion. Using Shak racial stock to colonise planets can add 30+ planets to your empire. And this becomes game critical, particularly at the harder levels of the game where colony expansion is much harder.

I also leave the Shak beacon colonies (the ones with the large troop garrisons) till the end, as it seems like the other races won't invade (most times), that way I can continue the war against Shak allies till I have whittled them down to a manageable level for the post war game. I then go back and invade the beacon planets to finally end the war.

One other note, don't send an ambassador to the meeting which forms your alliance, if you are a strong race (among the non-Shaktari aligned). Every race in your alliance gets to vote on your proposals and the smaller factions can limit your options.

Eg, say the Shak alliance is at war already with several races, unencumbered by your own alliance you can declare war on those races already under pressure, to take advantage of their weakened state, thus expanding your own empire relatively easily. Negatives from war rep are mitigated by doing the war missions. I particularly like swooping in on their planets with research facilities to expand my own research at this critical stage.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by russlog6:

Shakturi become a lot easier if you delay their arrival - try latest. Also, they really only have the one 300k fleet initially and that keeps reducing through attrition. Unless they get a pushover win against a weak race (and that becomes harder the later they arrive), they really become easy beats. They actually struggle for resources after their initial arrival and struggle to build new fleets quickly.

Of course the big priority is to make sure you conquer a Shak planet before the other races, so you can accelerate your own expansion. Using Shak racial stock to colonise planets can add 30+ planets to your empire. And this becomes game critical, particularly at the harder levels of the game where colony expansion is much harder.

I also leave the Shak beacon colonies (the ones with the large troop garrisons) till the end, as it seems like the other races won't invade (most times), that way I can continue the war against Shak allies till I have whittled them down to a manageable level for the post war game. I then go back and invade the beacon planets to finally end the war.

One other note, don't send an ambassador to the meeting which forms your alliance, if you are a strong race (among the non-Shaktari aligned). Every race in your alliance gets to vote on your proposals and the smaller factions can limit your options.

Eg, say the Shak alliance is at war already with several races, unencumbered by your own alliance you can declare war on those races already under pressure, to take advantage of their weakened state, thus expanding your own empire relatively easily. Negatives from war rep are mitigated by doing the war missions. I particularly like swooping in on their planets with research facilities to expand my own research at this critical stage.

Thank you - "Extra Helpful!" Everything you said makes perfect sense. It was my first run through I thought the devs and other beta testers probably knew what they were doing thus the default settings. Your way sounds much better.

I've started a new game on a higher difficulty setting as well as choosing to delay the return as long as the settings will allow. This should result in more of a "normal" game with some end-game content.

Great advice! Thanks again.

[russlog6]

Originally posted by TheMac:

I've started a new game on a higher difficulty setting as well as choosing to delay the return as long as the settings will allow. This should result in more of a "normal" game with some end-game content.

If you are used to playing normal game, I'd think you should stay there at least until you are comfortable with the Shak attack. You'll struggle to get your fleets up to 300k even then as the Shak arrival is not deferred for as long as you'd like. IMO the arrival of the Shak could be better timed by the devs, but it's matter of balance which seems to vary from game to game even within the same level.

Important, you really only need one fleet to match the Shak 300k fleet. The rest of your fleets need to match the fleets of the Shak allies, which are usually much smaller. The best defence is to have many of these smaller fleets.

You can also delay the Shak declaring war on you by giving them gifts -- will only really be useful if you are strong and buying time will enable you to get stronger.

I forgot to say earlier, it's worthwhile if you don't turn off Shakturi. The complexity is ramped up with them in the game and it really does change how you play. In Chaotic you even have strong friendly allies join the Shak (I'm talking 100+ rep). Try predicting where to set your fleets in that scenario.

[DrPhiloponus]

I was able to win against the Shakturi in my first ply through with them on normal difficulty but with a later begin of the storyline which makes it much easier.

[jorgen_cab]

I really never find these types of enemies that problematic... the main strategy is to have them come up against a fortress world and then trap them there and ambush with your main forces once they emerge from pace and engages the planetary defences.

Sensors are you friend so you know where they intend to strike you as soon as possible. You then gather the fleets and great them a warm welcome at a specific point and take them out.

I do the same with say the Hive if I can as well.

If you loose a border world or two is not a big deal, they will find their way to that fortress world eventually so choose one that you think they will target sooner rather than later and then defeat them soundly.

It is more a problem if they go after your allies first, but then try and find a good fortress world in your allies empire and do the same thing there. Might not be as good as your own fortress world but probably good enough as you likely also will have allied ships and fleets helping you too. It is important to actively help your allies and not let them fall and allow Shakturi forces to grow.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by jorgen_cab:

I really never find these types of enemies that problematic... the main strategy is to have them come up against a fortress world and then trap them there and ambush with your main forces once they emerge from pace and engages the planetary defences.

Sensors are you friend so you know where they intend to strike you as soon as possible. You then gather the fleets and great them a warm welcome at a specific point and take them out.

I do the same with say the Hive if I can as well.

If you loose a border world or two is not a big deal, they will find their way to that fortress world eventually so choose one that you think they will target sooner rather than later and then defeat them soundly.

It is more a problem if they go after your allies first, but then try and find a good fortress world in your allies empire and do the same thing there. Might not be as good as your own fortress world but probably good enough as you likely also will have allied ships and fleets helping you too. It is important to actively help your allies and not let them fall and allow Shakturi forces to grow.

Thanks. I'll keep all that in mind during my new game on harder difficulty, especially the part about supporting my allies. I'm assuming they will all be stronger this round.

In my last game, I did just that. I had a world with tons of troops, and all the defensive structures I had researched. The AI brought a 300k fleet and I sent all my 20+k fleets to it. I had 10 million in excess funds (bank) and by the time the battle was over I was down to 2 million. Then I looked up and the Shakturi already had another 5-6 300k fleets heading towards my territory.

All other races in the game combined didn't have 300k fleet power. Game was wildly out of balance at Normal difficulty, and I got the feeling that the game would have been considerably better at higher difficulty due to other races being able to put up somewhat of a fight, instead of 5k and 10k fleets vs 300k Shakturi fleets.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by omnius:

Why wasn't the Shakturi included in that thread poll about what race is overpowered the most? It sure looks like they are OP by too much. More like they're geared to provide the absolute best players a challenge while overpowering casual gamers. I'm glad I'm waiting on buying the Shakturi DLC for another 6 months or so when m y next big Matrix annual discount coupon comes along.

You may be right, though please keep in mind my only experience with the DLC so far was a game on normal difficulty and pre-warp start. ZumZoom has different starting conditions and he says he needs them to arrive early to be a challenge. Far from what I experienced with default, pre-warp settings.

[jorgen_cab]

Well, the numbers of strength of fleets is not really important as it depends on what type of weapons and defences you use and the strategy etc... so you can probably beat their fleets with a fleet that is way less than 300k... but besides that you should have plenty of allies and fleet stregth to beat them especially if you play on normal difficulty.

I'm not saying it should be easy but you should have been able to create and foster some strong allies so you should not be fighting alone.

You also should not wait to engage the Shakturi when they arrive, you probably need to be as proactive as possible. Attacking both them and their allies hard... This is suppose to be a fight for survival so you can't afford to play nice. Anyone siding with the Shakturi needs to be dealt with hard and fast so it is time to play hard ball with them and force them to change side or be wiped out. You don't have time to invade worlds and be considerate, it is a different type of fight.

If you gear your entire empire toward war you should be able to deal with them and build the navy you need to beat them. It is time to stop caring about growing and turn all the current profits to the war effort.

Don't spend too much resources on defence, offence is way more effective... a couple of fortress worlds are enough and whatever you loose you can easily get back later. Defences just don't win you big wars.

It works the same when someone declare war at you... if you send your fleets to them they have to deal with them and can't invade your worlds. You don't even need to normally take opponents planets, just destroy their economy, basesa and fleets and they will have to submit to you eventually.

It really is not much different with the Shakturi... just build up a strong powerful logistical infrastructure with bases where you need them and take the fight to them as early as possible, be aggressive not passive. Use cunning to engage where you are strong and withdraw where you are weak. Expect to loose some worlds, you have to do that as a strategic sacrifice as horrible as it sounds to the people living on them, but you can't defend everything as that means you defend nothing in the end.