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OriginalHammy Aug 16, 2023 @ 4:50pm
I wish the game was harder.
It's very easy to become bigger, and expand quicker than the AI and not only that, but beat them in war.

I'm not sure why exactly. Could be because I build 3-4x more science and construction ships than it recommends.

Anyway...

Edit: I appreciate all the helpful advice from everyone, but I DO NOT as it stands, wish to make my game into a living hell to improve my game experience with AI. I would prefer if I could have advice on how to make them harder, without reducing my experience.
Thanks.
Last edited by OriginalHammy; Aug 17, 2023 @ 10:01am
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Originally posted by Nightskies:
As I understand it, you seek to have a fair game with the AI, one that is more challenging than the default settings. For a fair game, you don't want the galaxies empires lining up against you, nor do you want to be playing from behind. There are three things to do in the spirit of your request.

First, carefully craft a lineup of empires to occupy the galaxy. Under default settings, the Boskara and Dhayut will find themselves allied with themselves against everyone. You don't want a galaxy that gets friendly and unites against the bugs and maybe the Mortalen. In a 6x6 galaxy, for you, I recommend 11 AI empires: 1 Boskara, 2 Haakonish, 1 Ackdarian, 1 Human, 1 Dhayut, 1 Ikkuro, 2 Teekan, 1 Mortalen, 1 Zenox. Set one of the same race as you to Nearby, everyone else further and your natural enemiy as Very Distant alone (typically Boskara, the Ikkuro and Dhayut are enemies and Humans are Boskara's arch-enemy). This prevents everyone from allying against a Boskara alliance and allows the most typical strongest AI races, the Teekan and Haakonish, a more likely chance to grow large, in addition to giving your worst enemy free range to inflate. You will likely find former allies to be more hostile but not inclined to simply fight because they don't like you.

Second, make sure everything is set up to aid how the AI plays. Let colony and independent prevalence be high or very high. Put galaxy aggression higher (this allows more passive empires the weights in RNG they need to decide to attack to get something they want- under normal settings, a would-be strong empire may stagnate because they aren't allowed to use their military against a fellow non-bug empire). Limit Priate and monster strength. And at least give the AI better-than-normal starting systems- they don't know how to handle a critical shortage well, and a little better capital won't be a staggering advantage.

Third, but most importantly... don't employ any unfair advantages the player can use that the AI can't. This ends somewhere subjectively, but wherever you draw the line, practice this to whatever degree you find appropriate. At the least:
  • do not use multiple mining engines in a single ship/station
  • do not force rebellions
  • do not use quantum capacitors (yes, AI can't use these but are strong)
  • don't buy or sell technology prolifically (or better, disable tech trading)
  • don't use super ancient technology like x-lasers
  • don't adopt Path or Way of the Ancients
...and so on. You could go as far as to build Cruisers and Battleships regularly with bombardment weapons, because the AI has to, but those above should be the least you don't take advantage of.

I'd like to be more detailed but I'm on vacation and the Steam app is painful to post long posts on. Good luck!
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Showing 1-15 of 33 comments
TheMac Aug 16, 2023 @ 4:53pm 
Loads of suggestions over in the guides section. See Nighskies in particular.
#1
OriginalHammy Aug 16, 2023 @ 4:56pm 
Originally posted by TheMac:
Loads of suggestions over in the guides section. See Nighskies in particular.
Could you link something relevant? I don't see Nighskies.
#2
TheMac Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:02pm 
Originally posted by OriginalHammy:
Originally posted by TheMac:
Loads of suggestions over in the guides section. See Nighskies in particular.
Could you link something relevant? I don't see Nighskies.

Sure. Let me take a look.
#3
TheMac Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:03pm 
Nightskies is a player. He has a series with the words "Space Orcs" in it. All his stuff is fantastic.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834433225

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948376176

Read through there and you'll find a section on things you can do to make the game more challenging. It's a title in development (the game) and I agree with you that balance is something in the works as well. Find what makes you happy.

Nightskies and others like to play at extreme disadvantage, where the other empires are likely stronger than them and are attacking all the time.
Last edited by TheMac; Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:05pm
#4
OriginalHammy Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:06pm 
Originally posted by TheMac:
Nightskies is a player. He has a series with the words "Space Orcs" in it. All his stuff is fantastic.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834433225

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948376176

Read through there and you'll find a section on things you can do to make the game more challenging. It's a title in development (the game) and I agree with you that balance is something in the works as well. Find what makes you happy.

Nightskies and others like to play at extreme disadvantage, where the other empires are likely stronger than them and are attacking all the time.
I don't want a hellish game, I just want the other empires in my games to not be pushovers.
#5
TheMac Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:17pm 
Originally posted by OriginalHammy:
Originally posted by TheMac:
Nightskies is a player. He has a series with the words "Space Orcs" in it. All his stuff is fantastic.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834433225

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948376176

Read through there and you'll find a section on things you can do to make the game more challenging. It's a title in development (the game) and I agree with you that balance is something in the works as well. Find what makes you happy.

Nightskies and others like to play at extreme disadvantage, where the other empires are likely stronger than them and are attacking all the time.
I don't want a hellish game, I just want the other empires in my games to not be pushovers.

I've tried my best to help you, so I think I'll leave this topic for others. You're welcome.
#6
AK_icebear Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:45pm 
The latest public beta has some improvements that should really help the AI economy management, which in turn should help their military defense and offense. They've also mentioned in the discord that economy is a rising priority. You want to check out the latest public beta.
#7
OriginalHammy Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:47pm 
Originally posted by AK_icebear:
The latest public beta has some improvements that should really help the AI economy management, which in turn should help their military defense and offense. They've also mentioned in the discord that economy is a rising priority. You want to check out the latest public beta.
Appreciate it.
#8
AK_icebear Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:50pm 
Just wanted to flag how good a suggestion this is:
> When you find yourself the big dog in the galaxy, and victory is assured, set your empire to full automatic and use the editor to take control of one of the underdogs. Then you will face the toughest enemy. Player empires are the strongest of all.
#9
OriginalHammy Aug 16, 2023 @ 5:51pm 
Originally posted by AK_icebear:
Just wanted to flag how good a suggestion this is:
> When you find yourself the big dog in the galaxy, and victory is assured, set your empire to full automatic and use the editor to take control of one of the underdogs. Then you will face the toughest enemy. Player empires are the strongest of all.
To clarify, I don't want the toughest enemy, nor do I wish to go through the effort of that.

I simply wish for them to build a stronger AI so I may just put my settings in the way I prefer and not have worthless enemies.

It's nice when things go right.
#10
Tanaka Aug 16, 2023 @ 6:18pm 
Originally posted by OriginalHammy:
Originally posted by AK_icebear:
Just wanted to flag how good a suggestion this is:
> When you find yourself the big dog in the galaxy, and victory is assured, set your empire to full automatic and use the editor to take control of one of the underdogs. Then you will face the toughest enemy. Player empires are the strongest of all.
To clarify, I don't want the toughest enemy, nor do I wish to go through the effort of that.

I simply wish for them to build a stronger AI so I may just put my settings in the way I prefer and not have worthless enemies.

It's nice when things go right.

I hear you and I am the same. I don't want to have to rachet up the difficulties and give overpowered bonuses to get an overpowered AI. I just want an AI that can at least compete playing a normal game. And I want to reduce any player advantages as much as possible. (Such as spies stealing tech and independents making things too easy)
Last edited by Tanaka; Aug 16, 2023 @ 6:23pm
#11
Tanaka Aug 16, 2023 @ 6:27pm 
Originally posted by OriginalHammy:
Originally posted by TheMac:
Nightskies is a player. He has a series with the words "Space Orcs" in it. All his stuff is fantastic.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2834433225

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948376176

Read through there and you'll find a section on things you can do to make the game more challenging. It's a title in development (the game) and I agree with you that balance is something in the works as well. Find what makes you happy.

Nightskies and others like to play at extreme disadvantage, where the other empires are likely stronger than them and are attacking all the time.
I don't want a hellish game, I just want the other empires in my games to not be pushovers.

Found that section:

Creating a challenging galaxy
Like in warfare, I recommend playing a galaxy that challenges your economic prowess. In addition to raising the difficulty level, the following will make it more of a challenge.

Turn off tech trading. It is far too easy to become a tech giant through trading tech. If you keep it on, only use credits to buy tech. I promise the game will be too easy if you abuse this feature.

Don't make pirates distant. Keep both Colony Prevalence and Independent Colonies at least at Normal - the AI doesn't handle less very well. Some suggest limiting pirates and creatures, but I haven't seen the AI struggle with them to a crippling degree. Note that certain pirate factions spawn by event triggers regardless of galaxy settings.

Generally, give the AI Excellent starting systems while you get Normal or less. Increase their tech by 1-3 tiers. Give them all Path/Way of the Ancients/Darkness- the other governments have been re-balanced.

Starting expansion is a wild card. Those extra colonies will take some time to start having positive value; sometimes they're good, and sometimes bad. Better for larger galaxies, especially with higher colony prevalence.

If you're feeling frisky, raise colony prevalence and independents higher, and crank down the colonization range limit to 100. Using the range limit diminishes your ability to exploit an explosive reputation that allows you to claim independants en masse beyond the AI's skills and has the added benefit of allowing more empires to have time to grow to rival you. The AI will perform comparatively better, being allowed to claim a slice of the pie without the threat of a distant power (namely you) taking it out from under their noses. I say again: Range Limit restricts you more than it does them.

If you're starting at pre-warp, having Research Speed: Very Slow will make a much more difficult game with the AI starting with Warp Bubble or better- your empire will be completely dwarfed by the time you emerge from your system. Step down the AI's advantage by 1 or 2 steps in tech and starting systems, and don't give them the funding boost or boost Research Speed. Even then, starting at pre-warp while they don't is a big handicap.

At the start of the game, use the editor to add a 0 to their starting state and private bank.

Manually setting up empires, you can control how hostile the galaxy will be to a much better degree than the Galaxy Aggression setting. Playing Humans against a galaxy of 12 Boskara empires is as hard as starting pre-warp with everyone else at tier 2- you'll be hard-pressed to get any trade, which is a big deal. And once they're done claiming independants, your blood will be the hottest commodity on the market. Being Human with a balance of races for other empires is easy mode. Reduce the number of auto-generated empires by 1/2 and add race/government combinations that don't regard yours well. For example, a Teekan Democracy won't care for your Ackdarian Military Dictatorship.

When you find yourself the big dog in the galaxy, and victory is assured, set your empire to full automatic and use the editor to take control of one of the underdogs. Then you will face the toughest enemy. Player empires are the strongest of all.

With some combination of these, you should find the AI will have some empires that will push you to cheese the game. Despite that, try to avoid extensive tech stealing and making everyone a friendly trade partner. After all, you're a Space Orc, not a Space Corp.
No offense to the Ikkuro and their subsidiaries.
Last edited by Tanaka; Aug 16, 2023 @ 6:29pm
#12
ERutins  [developer] Aug 16, 2023 @ 8:53pm 
Originally posted by OriginalHammy:
It's very easy to become bigger, and expand quicker than the AI and not only that, but beat them in war.

I'm not sure why exactly. Could be because I build 3-4x more science and construction ships than it recommends.

Anyway...

You may want to try a new game in the 1.1.6.5 update. We have made some AI improvements there.
#13
OriginalHammy Aug 16, 2023 @ 8:53pm 
Originally posted by ERutins:
Originally posted by OriginalHammy:
It's very easy to become bigger, and expand quicker than the AI and not only that, but beat them in war.

I'm not sure why exactly. Could be because I build 3-4x more science and construction ships than it recommends.

Anyway...

You may want to try a new game in the 1.1.6.5 update. We have made some AI improvements there.
Could you elaborate on AI improvements? Or direct me to a patchnotes?
#14
ERutins  [developer] Aug 16, 2023 @ 9:18pm 
1.1.6.5 should be releasing as the official Discovery update next week as well. The beta update change lists are in this thread:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1531540/discussions/0/6960928795821838821/
#15
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Date Posted: Aug 16, 2023 @ 4:50pm
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