Distant Worlds 2

Distant Worlds 2

Nightskies Aug 31, 2022 @ 12:15pm
How to win a war?
So, the War Score is obviously nonsense. It can be astronomically high and the enemy may not be willing to give up. Its like a Sayian's power level- bu******.

Do you have insight on how to actually win a war? Please, lend what you have witnessed.
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Showing 1-15 of 35 comments
Nightskies Aug 31, 2022 @ 12:15pm 
I'll begin with what I've observed.

First, it appears that intimidating a foe - in other words, threatening to cause lots of damage - is the way to get them to offer peace. Wipe out their attacking force. Retake or destroy an equal amount of what they took. Then send a large invasion force toward their colonies after destroying its defenses.

But don't actually take it. Threatening to do so makes the AI want to stop the fighting.

If you destroy a little too much, it seemingly makes the AI want to get even. This is especially true when the player initiates war and the AI is stronger by the numbers. If it gets to that point that too much was destroyed, they'll only offer to give up when they've been effectively crippled- they won't admit defeat until they've been thoroughly defeated.

Then it appears that the unspoken cause of war matters a lot. An unjustified war by the player pushes the AI to fight until defeat. An aggressive AI that declared an unjustified war will give up if they fail to take what they wanted. Those that join a war due to a Defense Pact or a triggered event are willing to end the war without a single shot fired in time. Then provoking an AI to declare war on you is even harder to discern to what point the AI will be willing to give up. "Please don't completely crush us, we'll pay you to stop."

Another way of looking at the war is to consider what it takes to offer peace- a war could be seen as forced diplomacy. "I wanted that colony. You wouldn't trade for it. So I took it. I'll offer to buy it for a fair price. This large amount is enough, let's stop fighting now."

The War Weariness contributes to crippling an empire, but like the War Score, apparently doesn't dictate how likely they are to give up.

Any insights (or arguments against what I've observed) would be appreciated!
frankycl Aug 31, 2022 @ 1:33pm 
I'm a bit surprised that you only try to discuss this on an abstract / objective level. :lunar2020thinkingtiger:
- I'm not quite certain of this, but as far as I know, the AI acts quite differently for each race - or at least I would wish for it (according to the lore of the series; like e.g. the Boskarans will/should only offer any peace-treaty when threatened of extinction, or the Ackdarian will/should only go to war with other races when every diplomatic actions fail and they're threatened massively).
So, maybe it would be important to state additionally what race you've played and with what other race(s) you were at war with. :happens:
Gregorovitch Aug 31, 2022 @ 2:09pm 
I don't have enough wars under my belt to say, not enough data.

Only thing I can say is that I had occasion to reload and re-fight a recent war on account of misunderstanding a particular mechanic. In this case first time an ally of my target threw in the towel and offered white peace quite early whereas second time they didn't, they kept going for much longer.

I prosecuted the war pretty much exactly the same both times but the main difference I think between the two runs was that in the second one I was much quicker getting a fleet of specialised bombardment destroyers on site and bombing. That of course produces a large rep loss. I suspect therefore that rep has a lot to do with how likely an adversary is prepared to sue for peace.
Nightskies Aug 31, 2022 @ 3:54pm 
Since wars can take quite some time, I haven't been able to come to a sure conclusion, hence why I seek everyone's experiences. Its not so much a question of "what happened" with my experience, but more a "what have you had happen?" I've played at least one 'complete' game with all but the Ackdarians and Haakonish. A little more detail on some of my experiences, though.

Almost universally, the War Score would be a huge positive number and would refuse to accept a peace offer that didn't include hundreds of thousands to millions of credits.

Humans: In one playthrough, I paid no heed to peace offers and warred very aggressively against everyone except the Ackdarians, Zenox and Teekans (only one of each race in that galaxy). In another, I only engaged the Haakonish in a 33 year grand war at the end game, and they insisted to continue the war- I checked the message log- not a single offer for peace. I eventually gave them over 3.8 million despite having taken their homeworld and having 830240K War Score, having destroyed 1,847 military ships and invaded 21 colonies, including their homeworld. None of my own were conquered (or having at least retaken them) and 628 of my own military ships destroyed (I allowed a lot of automation for this big war). Their leader died several times, and it was a Mortalen leader of the Haakonish Empire that accepted the massive peace offering.

Teekans: Warred against no one except the Mortalen whom declared war- but I provoked them by attacking their ships and stations, even conquering a colony. They began to sued for peace when my troop transports were in the skies of their core colonies. Before that, one of their colonies rebelled and joined my empire, and significant battling took place over a formerly Human Independent colony of mine over the course of the war to that point. I refused that and 2 more offers without gifts, and then 6 more before accepting an offer after being satisfied with the spoils. It was a 19 year war during which 5 colonies were taken- over half the peace offers were just before an invasion. Despite continuing such belligerent out-of-war attacks, the only other war was with the Haakonish, which I initiated since they were resisting enough but didn't want the reputation hit for continued aggression. They repeatedly offered peace just before an invasion that they couldn't direct defense to. Both wars were very one-sided: dozens of stations and hundreds of enemy warships destroyed, less than 10 military ships lost.

Zenox: Early war against Haakonish who initiated it with a near-surprise capture of a mining station, I refused a peace offer when I destroyed their offensive fleets over my colony and was on the way to recapture the station. I decided to eliminate them, and received 8 more offers before they were eliminated.

I have other instances in my saves, but I think amount of detail suffices for now.

Even in an unjustified offensive war against Ackdarians as the Mortalens, they have the mindset of "you must be eliminated for the threat you pose to the galaxy at all costs". Their words, quoted as accurately as my memory serves.

*I completely forgot the Boskarans. Had numerous wars with them over the course of my games. I only remember doing what any reasonable human would do against them...
Last edited by Nightskies; Aug 31, 2022 @ 3:59pm
TheCr33pur Sep 1, 2022 @ 1:36am 
Depend on the settings when you made the game, such as victory, etc. Only way you going to win to cripple their shipping lanes that resources are needed to build things. It may take awhile, since they stockpile alot of it and not knowing how much they have left.

They got to have all the resource to require to build things, if one is missing, then they are in trouble.

Just like in WW2, in the Pacific, Japan were starving, USN and Allies manage to cripple her shipping raw materials to Japan. Not much different in this game and good luck in there.
Inquisitor Poe Sep 1, 2022 @ 2:32am 
Annihilate everything and everyone. No need to worry about peace offers if theres only you.. Found the planet killer, went around and annihilated entire homeworlds of races - that was a sure fire way to get the AI to beg for mercy.
Gregorovitch Sep 1, 2022 @ 4:29am 
I forgot to mention:

A lot of my wars have involved various empires having a both the impertinence and the stupidity to attack me. Fools.

Nevertheless when they do I often don't have much interest in grabbing their stuff, so lucky fools I guess. Which means I'm not massacring their civilians pops in these instances, just blowing up some of their military ships. No bad rep in other words.

It is noticeable in this scenario mostly they ask for peace quite quickly after their main fleets have been destroyed, particularly if I then blockade their capitals.

On the other hand if I decide to capture a bunch of their mining stations for their insolence as well they don't seem to like that much and resist peaceing out for longer. Capturing their mines does give me bad rep.

So again I think a lot of this resistance to peacing out can be put down to rep, specifically your global rep modifier (not your individual rep with the adversary in question).
Nightskies Sep 1, 2022 @ 11:14am 
Based on reputation with that specific faction (as in how they view the global modifiers) makes a lot of sense. Also based on that and my experience, I'm thinking the status of their standing fleets contributes most strongly.
Last edited by Nightskies; Sep 1, 2022 @ 12:25pm
Gregorovitch Sep 1, 2022 @ 1:26pm 
Thinking about it bombing planets and capping mines both involve the slaughter of civilians. It seems empires, as the game would have it anyway, take a very dim view of the wholesale slaughter of their civilian populations. "We will fight them on the beaches" etc. "We will never surrender"
Nightskies Sep 1, 2022 @ 3:30pm 
Considering the galaxy's easily discovered history- shipping children to be food, galactic scale genocide, bio-weapon research...

Can't say I blame 'em.
Inquisitor Poe Sep 2, 2022 @ 6:51am 
Genocide solves wars... who knew xD
frankycl Sep 2, 2022 @ 8:27am 
Originally posted by Nightskies:
(...) A little more detail on some of my experiences, though.
(...)
Humans: (...)
Teekans: (...)
Zenox: (...)
(...) against Ackdarians as the Mortalens, (...)

Oh, what a detailed and interesting report - thank you very much for sharing it. :hexhappy:

...but:
Originally posted by Nightskies:
*I completely forgot the Boskarans. Had numerous wars with them over the course of my games. I only remember doing what any reasonable human would do against them...

What would be a bit more interesting than what you did against them, would be what they did against you (or for a truce/peace, if it happened at all), I think. :cleanseal:
Last edited by frankycl; Sep 2, 2022 @ 8:28am
Big Dog Sep 2, 2022 @ 8:55am 
Winning wars? Just defend until they get bored.

Then you might ask, but defending is not winning, I reply, why declare war when you attack or invade a colony?
Nightskies Sep 2, 2022 @ 10:45am 
Nearly every save I have in war with Boskara are isolated, so they were short and I can't recall what happened. They never won. Pretty sure that they at least try to offer peace before annihilation.

Worth noting that I incidentally haven't had a worthy rival Boskara in my galaxies.

It appears we have multiple folks saying the AI offers peace by simply (or only) destroying their fleets.

Has anyone else seen anything different? Tonight I'll start testing this observation.
frankycl Sep 2, 2022 @ 12:04pm 
Originally posted by Nightskies:
Worth noting that I incidentally haven't had a worthy rival Boskara in my galaxies.

But you do know that you could make them a lot stronger in the game-start settings (a lot sronger than your race - or any other race, if you wish), yes ?
So, the question would be: Did you really maximize all their values - and minimized your own and/or of the other races ?
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Date Posted: Aug 31, 2022 @ 12:15pm
Posts: 35