nobody will steal ur data

[HypeR]

Do u think its that easy and netmarble and steam will allow that wtf is wrong with u people ?

[tyl0413]

Steam literally is full of spyware, Steam itself collects way too much data, obviously yes but for some reason there still are people out there like "Guys the corporations would never do something bad, why don't you blindly trust them?"

[.WndwLicKr]

if you sign your life away, you life can be taken. And you can't file a lawsuit against it, because you said "yes" to the ToS. So think very carefully before you decide to click "yes"

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by .WndwLickrDS:

if you sign your life away, you life can be taken. And you can't file a lawsuit against it, because you said "yes" to the ToS. So think very carefully before you decide to click "yes"

Not in the EU but yeah you shouldn't support such garbage anyways.

[.WndwLicKr]

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Originally posted by .WndwLickrDS:

if you sign your life away, you life can be taken. And you can't file a lawsuit against it, because you said "yes" to the ToS. So think very carefully before you decide to click "yes"

Not in the EU but yeah you shouldn't support such garbage anyways.

If you click yes to a Tos... then you accept every word written in that contract, regardless of where you live. Thats how the law works. EU doesn't have some magic stick to void that.

[Mattmattmatt]

Most of our data is already up for sale by the majors anyway.
Shame people would rather crusade against a game company than crusade towards their political representatives for better protection from such practices.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by .WndwLickrDS:

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Not in the EU but yeah you shouldn't support such garbage anyways.

If you click yes to a Tos... then you accept every word written in that contract, regardless of where you live. Thats how the law works. EU doesn't have some magic stick to void that.

It's literally EU law that "unfair contracts" are not legally binding.

[Seiren]

Originally posted by Mattmattmatt:

Most of our data is already up for sale by the majors anyway.
Shame people would rather crusade against a game company than crusade towards their political representatives for better protection from such practices.

Honestly, it's mostly just a few upset predecessor players whining. I doubt they ever read the terms, otherwise they would uninstall Steam out of fear. Some of the games on their accounts, after a quick look, are from less reputable companies with far worse data security and practices.

It's amusing to see the fake outrage.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by Mattmattmatt:

Most of our data is already up for sale by the majors anyway.
Shame people would rather crusade against a game company than crusade towards their political representatives for better protection from such practices.

The crusade should be against anyone collecting and using data that's not absolutely necessary for the operation of the service, dumb laws that should be changed don't cont and new tech developments should always be focused on even further improving existing acceptable ways of handling data so less is require to provide a service or implement stronger encryption and outlaw loopholes around them.
The only protection of data happens when you don't share it. For any online account for example nothing other than a username and password should be required and absolutely no logs other than for technical troubleshooting that's opt in should be collected. For operation of a game absolutely no connection to an outside service should be made when playing alone, in split-screen LAN or your own dedicated server, when playing on the developers server absolutely no data other than your gameplay stats or technical troubleshooting info when explicitly opted in should be transferred.
If the data used does not directly help you by for example having a game server hosted by an outside party instead of your player group it should not be acceptable to collect under any circumstances. Anything to do with advertising or "improving and personalizing" your experience is a huge scam so big companies or anyone willing to pay for it can know more about you so they can more easily exploit, scam or manipulate you.
Highers ups of the likes of Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, advertising and data analytics companies and the rest should be in prison for life.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by Seiren:

Originally posted by Mattmattmatt:

Most of our data is already up for sale by the majors anyway.
Shame people would rather crusade against a game company than crusade towards their political representatives for better protection from such practices.

Honestly, it's mostly just a few upset predecessor players whining. I doubt they ever read the terms, otherwise they would uninstall Steam out of fear. Some of the games on their accounts, after a quick look, are from less reputable companies with far worse data security and practices.

It's amusing to see the fake outrage.

See that's the problem, the new standard is no standard, far worse existing should never be an excuse to do bad things yourself, the standard should be there's far better, let's aim for that. If this game is not better than the competition in the first place why should one bother with it?

[Seiren]

Originally posted by tyl0413:

See that's the problem, the new standard is no standard, far worse existing should never be an excuse to do bad things yourself, the standard should be there's far better, let's aim for that. If this game is not better than the competition in the first place why should one bother with it?

I don't disagree that these practices are not good, in regard to larger corporations and even small businesses selling or mishandling your personal information (the big companies you listed are some of the worst offenders). This is more the pointless fear mongering targeted at this particular product by a particular set of people.

People only seem to care about privacy when they have some reason to leverage it - I agree that it's a bad mindset, if they really do care. I'd also be far more concerned with a smaller, less professional studio handling my personal data. The people complaining about it don't seem to be.

They don't even realize what they agreed to in the first place with Predecessor's data collection/storage methods as their ire isn't directed at security concerns.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by Seiren:

Originally posted by tyl0413:

See that's the problem, the new standard is no standard, far worse existing should never be an excuse to do bad things yourself, the standard should be there's far better, let's aim for that. If this game is not better than the competition in the first place why should one bother with it?

I don't disagree that these practices are not good, in regard to larger corporations and even small businesses selling or mishandling your personal information (the big companies you listed are some of the worst offenders). This is more the pointless fear mongering targeted at this particular product by a particular set of people.

People only seem to care about privacy when they have some reason to leverage it - I agree that it's a bad mindset, if they really do care. I'd also be far more concerned with a smaller, less professional studio handling my personal data. The people complaining about it don't seem to be.

They don't even realize what they agreed to in the first place with Predecessor's data collection/storage methods as their ire isn't directed at security concerns.

Because I do actually care and call it out very often I'm glad it's even mentioned with how rarely it's brought up these days even if it's only being done so selectively for other reasons, if people are actually just concerned about this game that's a good thing too, as they look into it further which they hopefully do they'll soon realize how big the problem really is and start treating it seriously and properly in all cases. If it's used as weak bait trying to trash the game they dislike for other reasons that's then lame, I do see that being done sometimes and it's sad, it gives the real issue and those that care about it a bad reputation when some just use it as a tool for selective outrage.
Regardless what opinion one holds right now I encourage them to look into the way data is being handled online in general and yes prioritize using strong encryption and open source software, using strong content filters, compartmentalize and deleting the facebook account first before deleting the Paragon account should you choose to do so.
That's the way to approach the topic then just "there's far worse so this is fine".
Even if it were a false outrage campaign from haters of the game, if a few people end up reading it's TOS then taking their first steps for their online privacy that's already a huge win so I guess thanks trolls? Do stop tho, don't look good, invest your time doing more useful things, maybe troll the data corporations by feeding them a bunch of false useless data faster that they can filter it or something.

[Seiren]

Originally posted by tyl0413:

...

That's great and all, but given all the games you own it's difficult to take your point seriously. It seems somewhat hypocritical.

[ATStrategist]

ToS have been found not legally binding in multiple countries, including the US, and Canada. Privacy laws surpass the ToS or Privacy agreement. if they do stupid ♥♥♥♥ they can get caught and trialed

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by Seiren:

Originally posted by tyl0413:

...

That's great and all, but given all the games you own it's difficult to take your point seriously. It seems somewhat hypocritical.

You're free to think that, infact other than the things I say you can't verify ♥♥♥♥ I say on the Steam forum, which kinda is the point. Could I do better? Absolutely, will I for the sake of it? I think it becomes a bit pointless when it starts to seriously affect usability, basically don't go overboard just like with anything and that looks differently for everyone. I have a heavily debloated Windows PC for playing games only and I certainly sacrifice the usage data and technical information about that machine and many games for that, for everything else I use other PCs with Linux and almost exclusively open source software, I store all my data locally, use unique and strong password and multi factor for encrypting it and online accounts, I do not put personally identifiable info online or use social media, I don't use with exception of logged out youtube any google services and block all their known trackers, I buy most games on deep sales with steam wallet codes with cash. Most games with heavy DRM like always online I do not pay for, I avoid most games with crazy anti-cheat and other monitoring mechanics like for the chat like Overwatch 2 or Riot's. Aside the browser and 2FA I use my phone as a dumb phone, debloated all the pre-installed crap of it bc I don't wanna replace it while it works fine still, will do whatever grapheneOS supports for a fair price when I have to change it.
I say that's much better than what most people do, do they have to do all of that or more? Not really but it would be good to get to the mindset where they use throwaway mails for random services, run adblocks, get off social media for other reasons too remove the constant google spyware off the phone for example.
While I don't like it game developers can know what I accomplished in a game or how long I played for and with what hardware, It's a far smaller violation than asking for a phone number connected to my real identity say Overwatch 2 or recording my entire online and even offline activity like Google to sell it to every advertising company, manipulate what information I can access online or unreasonably call the authorities on my because their system was bugged or misused by an employee (I'm not important enough for them to go after me like that personally which they do do I think but you never know).
For starters I can recommend most of the advice found on TechLore on Odysee (or YT if you prefer), you can play the game while properly securing your system and not give out certain info in general so the devs would have pretty much no way of acquiring it despite apparently trying which is already far better than most do.
If the standard set is only Richard Stallman can call out anti-consumer practices in software because otherwise you're a hypocrite nobody really can critique it then which means no awareness of the issue and no incentive to change it for developers.
You can play while saying what they do is crappy and that's way better than saying "but there's far worse so this is fine", I don't count that as hypocritical, I do those that make TikToks about it or something (they probably hopefully don't but you never know, maybe they do).

[BiggieJohn]

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Steam literally is full of spyware, Steam itself collects way too much data, obviously yes but for some reason there still are people out there like "Guys the corporations would never do something bad, why don't you blindly trust them?"

Steam was forced by the US government to start collecting tax information from users that sell over 1k USD on the marketplace back in like 2017 or 2018. So You can try and blame Steam, but really it's the US Government. Might as well pitchfork your own government if you live in the US.