Large party size on Adaptive mode is disadvantageous

[Ninth Hour]

I was just exploring the Vertruse tomb and found it significantly tougher than the ones in Tiltren and Arthes, as there were a number of factors against me.

1) Party size: because I had been trying to raise some captured boars for meat, my group was larger than usual, with 18 members altogether (5 of them boars). On Adaptive difficulty, this results in a huge number of Creepers and Mole Rats. Venture just a few meters and you see groups of 4 of them clustered close together.

2) High level of enemies: most of my group was level 9. All the creepers and mole rats were level 10. At that level, a creeper can inflict 30 to 40 damage- 60 with a crit, Even Heavy Armor will not hold up for long.

3) Scattered deployment zones: because the party is large, you have 3 to 4 deployment zones, each with 5 to 6 squares, spread across the map. This makes it much easier for the Creepers to divide and conquer.

I remembered that, when I was between level 5 to 7 and exploring the earlier tombs with a crew of 8 to 9, the combat was nowhere near as stressful.

But under the current conditions, I keep on getting mauled. I'm able to survive mainly because of powerful skills but the fight are all very messy.

In fact, I have noticed- as a general trend- that when your party is large enough, it becomes tougher to keep your formation cohesive because of the random deployment squares you are forced to accept, which can place you in a highly dangerous position.

Whereas if you have a smaller party, you can more easily avoid these squares.

Well, my lesson is learned. I'm never playing with a large party again- at least not on Adaptive mode. Boar farming is a nice novelty but it's rather unwieldy, If you try it, you really should avoid combat, as the boars just inflate your numbers, prompting the AI to throw more enemies at you and forcing you into unfavorable deployment positions.

[Dies Fourth]

Not sure if it help but what ive done in the past is when making the troop larger and larger i had to make sub troops.

each could operate as an independent group.

Tank

spearman to cover the archer

Archer w/fire

and a ranger to attack from the flank or rear of an engaged enemy

Something like that

so if i had to split them each could survive by themselves

[Ninth Hour]

Sure, that makes sense, but you have to plan for that sort of unit organization. If you just let your party grow by capturing boars, it gives you all the disadvantages of a large party without the benefits.

Ever since I decided to experiment with boar farming (i.e. fattening them and then slaughtering them for the extra meat and grease), I've been taking more damage in combat and have had to spend more raw materials on repairs. When I was at 12 to 13 combatants, I was at an optimal spot and typically took only minor damage. It's time to downsize.

[Dies Fourth]

maybe just 1 boar ? iirc you get alot of meat from just 1

so you still get meat but keep your party smallish ?

[Incantus]

Much prefer the wolves that hunt for you.

[Lightning]

Yeah I got a pack of 3 alphas and 2 bears now crazy damage from the wolves when you spec all 3 into the 3+ crit dmg trait, if you attack an engaged enemy from behind and your wolf crits jeesh, like 60+ damage at level 4-5

[Dumeka]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Sure, that makes sense, but you have to plan for that sort of unit organization. If you just let your party grow by capturing boars, it gives you all the disadvantages of a large party without the benefits.

Ever since I decided to experiment with boar farming (i.e. fattening them and then slaughtering them for the extra meat and grease), I've been taking more damage in combat and have had to spend more raw materials on repairs. When I was at 12 to 13 combatants, I was at an optimal spot and typically took only minor damage. It's time to downsize.

Just do the boars farming while skipping the temples until you are done.
After that the dissadvantage with them is gone and if you want to go in with less units, leave some of your troops back in the trading spot (there are 5 sits there as far as I remember), go into the temple, do your run and then come back and take them with you again. :)

[drake_hound]

Why do people even bother with this BOAR farming ?
You really think those BOARS can bring in 1000 gold ?

And you were complaining about 150 gold Arena. and then you went and go Boar Farming.
Here if you want to experiment with things , get a ARMY of Master COOKS :P each cook only eat 1 food . if they have Aestic trait, that means somebody doesn't eat :P

[Ninth Hour]

I finally finished the tomb and that last room was...rough.

Miraculously, none of my boars died, even though there seemed to be no end to the enemies. After killing what must have been 20, several more reinforcements spawned.

All told, I must have killed at least 30 enemies in that final battle. They wrecked the armor of several party members and almost killed one of my archers, who got ambushed by three mole rats. Not being able to see where they're coming from means that they almost always get first strike. And my party, being large, means that my Swordsman can't use Encouragement (30% damage reduction) on everyone.

This is the first time since the early game that I've had such a desperate fight.

Hopefully, the Ludern tomb will be more manageable once I cut my party size down.

I know that it's for the purpose of gameplay balance but, in-universe, it stretches credibility that scrawny, naked subhumans and overgrown rats would, without weapons, be able to damage armored soldiers so badly,

Just glad that this ordeal is over.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Why do people even bother with this BOAR farming ?
You really think those BOARS can bring in 1000 gold ?

I just wanted to try it. Having a substantial reserve of food seemed appealing. I hadn't even thought of selling the meat- just thought I would stash it in the trading post- and never have to worry about food again,

Also, isn't this part of playing a games To try things out? We don't know how bad something is until we actually attempt it and and judge for ourselves.

If I didn't know better, I would think you were being judgmental but you have already explained previously that this is just your culture and preferred interpersonal approach, so I'll just let it go. :)

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Why do people even bother with this BOAR farming ?
You really think those BOARS can bring in 1000 gold ?

I just wanted to try it. Having a substantial reserve of food seemed appealing. I hadn't even thought of selling the meat- just thought I would stash it in the trading post- and never have to worry about food again,

Also, isn't this why we play games? To try things out? We don't know how bad something is until we actually attempt it and and judge for ourselves.

Not sure why you're so judgmental.

Really not worth the time :P the time it takes to feed them , people magically discount.
So to the time it becomes FAT and you slaughter it. you already FEED it twice the amount you got out of it.

That is simple Math. you have to carry it around how many RESTS before it becomes FAT.
Just buy the food, saves you a lot of time. store them in your Trading post. if you do not wish to carry them around.

Infact having a Plague Rat with finding Cheese , is profit on food (sadly it dies so fast and enemies want to kill it) .

[Ouranos]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

I just wanted to try it. Having a substantial reserve of food seemed appealing. I hadn't even thought of selling the meat- just thought I would stash it in the trading post- and never have to worry about food again,

Also, isn't this why we play games? To try things out? We don't know how bad something is until we actually attempt it and and judge for ourselves.

Not sure why you're so judgmental.

Really not worth the time :P the time it takes to feed them , people magically discount.
So to the time it becomes FAT and you slaughter it. you already FEED it twice the amount you got out of it.

That is simple Math. you have to carry it around how many RESTS before it becomes FAT.
Just buy the food, saves you a lot of time. store them in your Trading post. if you do not wish to carry them around.

Infact having a Plague Rat with finding Cheese , is profit on food (sadly it dies so fast and enemies want to kill it) .

The boar costs 2 food per rest, it gathers mushrooms from forests quite often, probably more than its cost in food. But yeah having 5 of them would really make the enemies stronger. I've had one i intended to slaughter for a long time he is now lvl 11, useless as ever but i don't know i just keep him for mushrooms i guess.

[dq_177]

That's why I'm glad they added region-fixed in EA.

[Kai]

This game doesn't allow you to control your deployment size and instead forces you to use all combat ready characters and forces the game to send equally or larger size in reaction.

Even on Region locked setting, your party size affect enemy party size still.

But allowed party size is dictated by the level in the locked regions...
Lv1 bandits and mobs will always be 2 to 3 enemies.
lv2 is 3-4
Lv3 is ~6
Lv4 is ~8? I still see enemies up to 6...
Maybe there is a cap in region locked, since I have like 4 wolves and 6 humans.

[dq_177]

Originally posted by Kai:

This game doesn't allow you to control your deployment size and instead forces you to use all combat ready characters and forces the game to send equally or larger size in reaction.

Why don't they just implement some sort of rear lines or baggage train position for your band of mercenaries where you can put things you don't want contributing to standard engagements like non-combat animals.

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Really not worth the time :P the time it takes to feed them , people magically discount.
So to the time it becomes FAT and you slaughter it. you already FEED it twice the amount you got out of it.

This isn't true. I have previously run the calculations in the Fat Boar thread. The stockpiles of food produced are considerable. And the consumption per regular boar set to Livestock option is quite small.

But the game has changed- so many options to reduce food consumption that I broke the game with an overflow error by reducing the food to under zero. People have loads of money now- the food situation is very different.

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

1) Party size: because I had been trying to raise some captured boars for meat, my group was larger than usual, with 18 members altogether (5 of them boars).

Oh no! They are huge footprints, with no torches. The best way to make more and stumble onto enemy units! Also a disaster in Rat Nests...

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Well, my lesson is learned. I'm never playing with a large party again- at least not on Adaptive mode. Boar farming is a nice novelty but it's rather unwieldy, If you try it, you really should avoid combat, as the boars just inflate your numbers, prompting the AI to throw more enemies at you and forcing you into unfavorable deployment positions.

Yes very good plan.
Once I get the Trading posts running, I try to reduce the combat troop to 4-5 size. We use a single Boar-Herd prisoner convert( nearly zero wages) to run the boars and trade when we operate the Farm.
Trading posts allow you to experiment with group composition for different tasks.