What is the most Valour positive character?

[Snobby Hobo]

So the Crossbowman is interesting: the class has several compounding effects. It is also a ranged class, which means you get access to free Valour at turn's end. This is balanced out by being very Valour negative in general. I like the design of this class overall.

Now I wonder: can we offset this with 1 or 2 characters? If so, what is the most Valour positive class so we can enable the Crossbowman to combo every turn?

[halcyan2]

If you want to farm Valour, it really helps to use a lot of The Brave's Oil.

Also have one character wear the Broker's Morion so that adjacent characters earn Valour each time they land a critical hit.

Vow of Valour resolution (gained from having 50 Fame from the Pits) also helps.

[ROE]

If your crossbow works out let us know. I'd like to think that class is good for something.

[HunterSilver]

Depends where you are in the game, but yes, Crossbow is going to be your Valor Point generator. A Gunner Crossbow should be spending between 0~1 valor points per turn and netting you between 3~7 kills. With Valorous Victory, that's 1 VP gained per kill.

Other high damage output classes tend to burn through VPs more heavily, such as Rangers using 2~3 VPs per turn and generally only getting 2~4 kills per turn, so you're Really banking on Brave's Oil to have a net gain from them, when they're generally better served by other oils on their weapons.

Same issue with the Executioner, they'll burn 3~4 VPs to get 3+ kills in a turn, but without Valorous Victory they just aren't churning out VPs as reliably as other classes.

I'm actually not sure how you're spending VPs on the crossbow. They don't have any VP skills. The only way that I can think of is that you're using crafted crossbows on them, in which case swap to other crossbows. Basically every other faction's crossbows are better and consume no VPs to get their reload effects. Personally I'm a huge fan of Guard Crossbows and Pirate Crossbows. If you don't want to farm them, equipment merchants regularly sell them.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by halcyan2:

If you want to farm Valour, it really helps to use a lot of The Brave's Oil.

Also have one character wear the Broker's Morion so that adjacent characters earn Valour each time they land a critical hit.

Vow of Valour resolution (gained from having 50 Fame from the Pits) also helps.

What does Broker's Morion do, and how do you get it?

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by ROE:

If your crossbow works out let us know. I'd like to think that class is good for something.

Gotta be honest, initially I thought the same. But all their effects are compounding. If you can somehow get 4-5 attacks per turn that has to be the highest scaling damage in the game right?

You would hit with 1+2+3+4=10 attacks in 1 turn. At the end of that chain you would have 200% the damage from the attack stacking. So 0.4 + 1.8 + 4 = 6.2 + 10 = 16.2 attacks worth of damage. When you somehow manage to get 5 reloads the damage flies even further off the rails into uncharted territory.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

Depends where you are in the game, but yes, Crossbow is going to be your Valor Point generator. A Gunner Crossbow should be spending between 0~1 valor points per turn and netting you between 3~7 kills. With Valorous Victory, that's 1 VP gained per kill.

Other high damage output classes tend to burn through VPs more heavily, such as Rangers using 2~3 VPs per turn and generally only getting 2~4 kills per turn, so you're Really banking on Brave's Oil to have a net gain from them, when they're generally better served by other oils on their weapons.

Same issue with the Executioner, they'll burn 3~4 VPs to get 3+ kills in a turn, but without Valorous Victory they just aren't churning out VPs as reliably as other classes.

I'm actually not sure how you're spending VPs on the crossbow. They don't have any VP skills. The only way that I can think of is that you're using crafted crossbows on them, in which case swap to other crossbows. Basically every other faction's crossbows are better and consume no VPs to get their reload effects. Personally I'm a huge fan of Guard Crossbows and Pirate Crossbows. If you don't want to farm them, equipment merchants regularly sell them.

You are correct. Initially I thought reload was only bound by Valour points. But this is obviously not true.

[HunterSilver]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Gotta be honest, initially I thought the same. But all their effects are compounding. If you can somehow get 4-5 attacks per turn that has to be the highest scaling damage in the game right?

Yeah, once you're lv7+ Gunner Crossbow goes nuts with damage. At lower levels I'd recommend Cannoneer for Commanding Shot instead, but once you can reliably get 3 shots per turn, respec to Gunner. By lv12 you will reliably be getting 5+ shots per turn.

Note that at lv10, you should take Second Weapon. Each crossbow you have equipped can only proc its reload once per turn, so having a second crossbow that you can swap to basically just gives you another free reload every turn.

Because Crossbows also get guaranteed crits on multiple hits, Solid Grip (reload on crit) is a must have.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by HunterSilver:

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Gotta be honest, initially I thought the same. But all their effects are compounding. If you can somehow get 4-5 attacks per turn that has to be the highest scaling damage in the game right?

Yeah, once you're lv7+ Gunner Crossbow goes nuts with damage. At lower levels I'd recommend Cannoneer for Commanding Shot instead, but once you can reliably get 3 shots per turn, respec to Gunner. By lv12 you will reliably be getting 5+ shots per turn.

Note that at lv10, you should take Second Weapon. Each crossbow you have equipped can only proc its reload once per turn, so having a second crossbow that you can swap to basically just gives you another free reload every turn.

Because Crossbows also get guaranteed crits on multiple hits, Solid Grip (reload on crit) is a must have.

I am not that far into the game yet. I restarted my playthrough once I read the Crossbowman's skills. I don't think I have had a character above level 5 so far.

But I will keep the advice in mind, thanks.

[halcyan2]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by halcyan2:

If you want to farm Valour, it really helps to use a lot of The Brave's Oil.

Also have one character wear the Broker's Morion so that adjacent characters earn Valour each time they land a critical hit.

Vow of Valour resolution (gained from having 50 Fame from the Pits) also helps.

What does Broker's Morion do, and how do you get it?

It's a Medium Helmet that you get midway through completing the final quests for the Path of Trade and Craftsmanship (so it requires having established a couple of Trade Routes).

Broker's Morion gives all adjacent companions the Proud status, which means they generate a valour point each time they get a critical. (It's not the companion wearing Broker's Morion who should be critting, it should be the people adjacent to whoever is wearing it).

[Dark]

Crossbow Gunners and the new Skelmor sword 'Ulfark's Ulfberht' break the VP and action encomey game.

Crossbow Gunner can kill 4-6 depending on your first hit luck (at level 10 with swap crossbow)

The sword lets you reuse the main attack if you crit, at the cost of 25% health damage for every extra attack (which you heal with oil.) This procs Defensive stance, which gives you a valor point every time you take damage from a skill. Including the self damage from this one.
So... infinite Valor points. Which is fun for a bit but...



More interestingly
* Champions Belt: The troop gains two valor points if it has no valor points at start of round. From the first Arena of Battle combat.
* Trait: Valiant: If group starts combat with less than two valor points, gains up to two valor points.
* Tent Two star: Generates 1 Valor at start of battle as long as someone is assigned. (Stacks with valiant)

So always start combat with at least 3 valor, and at least 2 at the start of every turn.

[Spawnling]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

So the Crossbowman is interesting: the class has several compounding effects. It is also a ranged class, which means you get access to free Valour at turn's end. This is balanced out by being very Valour negative in general. I like the design of this class overall.

Now I wonder: can we offset this with 1 or 2 characters? If so, what is the most Valour positive class so we can enable the Crossbowman to combo every turn?

I think you are asking your question the wrong way.
Are you playing on Extreme, where everything costs an extra Valor Point?

If not do you use The Brave's Oil (generate 1 Valor Point (VP) whenever you spend a VP):
Now every class with 1 cost abilities is VP neutral.

Do you use the Lieutenants buff, which doubles VP generation?
Combined with Brave's Oil every 1 VP skill now generates an additional VP, making all affected mercs VP positive.

Are you Mid-Late game, where a Halberdier can kill 4-5 enemies with the VP skill. That makes him VP positive. Same for Crit Archer, Rangers and Crossbowmen late game.

A Swordsman with 100% crit chance and the skelmar sword (Ulfark’s Ulfberht) becomes VP positive.
---
So a better question might be how to get VP positive with your units -> Brave's Oil + Lieutenant buff, then use all your 1 VP skills.

Now if you are playing on Extreme, where everything costs an additional VP, you'll need to use the Commander's ability to generate temporary VP at the start of a battle and the Lieutenant buff + Brave's Oil to make your mercs VP neutral/positive.
(e.g. on kill, engage, or multi hit VP generation makes you positive, while the Lieutenant buff + Brave Oil keep you neutral for most other skills.)

[halcyan2]

Originally posted by Spawnling:

I think you are asking your question the wrong way.
Are you playing on Extreme, where everything costs an extra Valor Point?

lulz.

I started on Extreme (and have always been playing it) so I sort of assumed that all the skills cost that many Valour Points normally. Didn't realize that I was paying extra for it due to the difficulty level! Hahaha.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by halcyan2:

Originally posted by Spawnling:

I think you are asking your question the wrong way.
Are you playing on Extreme, where everything costs an extra Valor Point?

lulz.

I started on Extreme (and have always been playing it) so I sort of assumed that all the skills cost that many Valour Points normally. Didn't realize that I was paying extra for it due to the difficulty level! Hahaha.

Did not know either. I wasn't playing on Extreme, but in defense of myself only because for some reason combat difficulty to Extreme also forces Survival to Extreme. The latter I consider mostly amounting do "doing more chores", so I stuck on whatever is second hardest.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by halcyan2:

Originally posted by Lampros:

What does Broker's Morion do, and how do you get it?

It's a Medium Helmet that you get midway through completing the final quests for the Path of Trade and Craftsmanship (so it requires having established a couple of Trade Routes).

Broker's Morion gives all adjacent companions the Proud status, which means they generate a valour point each time they get a critical. (It's not the companion wearing Broker's Morion who should be critting, it should be the people adjacent to whoever is wearing it).

Thanks - and no wonder I never came close to sniffing it! ;)

[halcyan2]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by halcyan2:

It's a Medium Helmet that you get midway through completing the final quests for the Path of Trade and Craftsmanship (so it requires having established a couple of Trade Routes).

Broker's Morion gives all adjacent companions the Proud status, which means they generate a valour point each time they get a critical. (It's not the companion wearing Broker's Morion who should be critting, it should be the people adjacent to whoever is wearing it).

Thanks - and no wonder I never came close to sniffing it! ;)

Trade and Craftsmanship is the easiest path to complete and you can do it quite early, if you just do lots of trade runs (buy lots of trade goods and sell them in a distant city).