The Three Things Battle Brother did better

[Vektor T]

First of all, I'm loving Wartales so much. It's like the Battle Brothers sequel we never had, with so much more depth and features. I overall do think Wartales is a better game, more deep and complete than Battle Brothers, the devs really knew the niche they where going into and how to deliver.

But while I do think Wartales scores higher them Battlebrothers most of the time, there are still three parts of the game I think Battlebrothers did better and Wartales could still improve uppon, be it in patches, DLC or a sequel, at least in my opinion and personal taste. Going from the less to the most impactul in the overall experience, here they are:

#1: Economy
- Overall I find the economy in Battle Brothers more enjoyable. It's was way harsher in the early and midgame, trading was really important to pay your bills and battles could be expensive, barely paying for themselves. Meanwhile in Wartales trading is kinda in the background, I never really bother except selling loot and excess resources due to weight constrains. Granted the resource and crafting system in Wartales is far beyond Battle Brothers and the main source of scarcity, but when I left Tiltren getting money feels very easy and supporting a big hoster not that hard even on Expert Survival (maybe the Tavern dlc spoiled it?).

#2: Injuries
- This is the only "streamlined" feature I truly feel in Wartales mechanichs over Battle Brothers. In Battle Brothers your soldiers had to heal HP and fix it armor after battle and it took time, meaning back to back fights where very difficulty if you don't have reserves (also another thing Wartales is missing: reserves). Larger battles felt more costly and consequential even when no ones dies. While I cannot say I was a big fan of permanent injuries in Battle Brothers, I liked very much the non-permanent wounds that took days to heal so a brothers could be out of comission for longer. Meanwhile in Wartales you just pop up a medicine for rare injuries and some insta repairs after battle and that's it, good as new.

#3: Formations
- This is the main feature I truly miss from Battle Brothers and the big reason I think Battle Brothers still worth playing even with Wartales being an overall better game. Battle Brothers battles felt more tactical and real because you soldiers did started lined next to each other, not spreaded all over the place. You had a frontline and backline, keeping your frontline in shape was important and flanking was a big thing. It also meant a bigger role difference between heavy frontliners, lighter/faster flankers and fragile backline supporters. The Surrounded and Supported situation in Wartales barely comes into play, while in Battle Brothers a single soldier by himself could be in serious danger, shieldwall was thing (a HUGE thing) and fighting organized enemies felt very different from fighting unorganized enemies. While I love the classes in Wartales, the way each soldier starts more like a blank sheet in Battle Brothers and how you develop their skills and which equipment they have matters most especially when you had to thing where they fit in your formation. Troops engaging and disengaging, pushing or retrating, maneuvering or holding line felt more alive in Battle Brothers, while in Wartales despite lacking formation troops 99% kill or die where they first engage wich makes the battles feel more static and less dynamic.

What you guys think?

(sorry for long post, *insert potato pic*)

[Wandering Flare]

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Any game will send you into a rage if you try to blindly play it, expecting to get anywhere, instead of trying to learn it. While you can't perfectly execute every single fight with zero effort in BB like you can in Wartales, it's a lot easier to suffer no issues if you utilize your advantages to circumvent the odds.

Battle Brothers is as deep as a puddle, there is very little to learn.

As I said if you like it so much there is nothing preventing you from playing it right about now. If one listens to you, it beats Wartales in literally everything. I am not sure why you keep coming back.

I can name at least half a dozen things you haven't learned in it based on your assessment of its combat alone, but sure, you who barely played it know it all.

Mainly to re-100% the game, but for the sake of the argument I will say that there are things in Wartales that are better than BB, namely the camp mechanics and the amount of non-randomly generated narrative in the game. It's just that BB completely beats Wartales in terms of combat and combat is what the two games are mainly about.

[Butcher]

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Battle Brothers is as deep as a puddle, there is very little to learn.

As I said if you like it so much there is nothing preventing you from playing it right about now. If one listens to you, it beats Wartales in literally everything. I am not sure why you keep coming back.

I can name at least half a dozen things you haven't learned in it based on your assessment of its combat alone, but sure, you who barely played it know it all.

Mainly to re-100% the game, but for the sake of the argument I will say that there are things in Wartales that are better than BB, namely the camp mechanics and the amount of non-randomly generated narrative in the game. It's just that BB completely beats Wartales in terms of combat and combat is what the two games are mainly about.

Go ahead, name it. I know you won't because it would require too much effort and you are not about that.

Once again, since combat is the main attraction you can go back to Battle Brothers. Sadly I don't think Wartales will include full miss RNG you love so much.

[Wandering Flare]

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

I can name at least half a dozen things you haven't learned in it based on your assessment of its combat alone, but sure, you who barely played it know it all.

Mainly to re-100% the game, but for the sake of the argument I will say that there are things in Wartales that are better than BB, namely the camp mechanics and the amount of non-randomly generated narrative in the game. It's just that BB completely beats Wartales in terms of combat and combat is what the two games are mainly about.

Go ahead, name it. I know you won't because it would require too much effort and you are not about that.

Once again, since combat is the main attraction you can go back to Battle Brothers. Sadly I don't think Wartales will include full miss RNG you love so much.

Alright, off we go:
1) More people = more problems. If you don't kit out your bros properly before expanding your company, then you will just decrease your own odds of survival as each individual bro is far weaker than each individual companion in Wartales, so the more enemies there are, the more you're rigging the game against yourself early on.
2) Bringing the right tool for the job. Nets, whips, grenades, you name it, those aren't just fancy things to look at in the stores, they can and will be useful to deal with certain opponents that would otherwise rock your ♥♥♥♥ if you just storm into the fight banking on RNG alone, not to mention bringing axes to break shields, hammers to break armor, and polearms mixed with regular weapons to further utilize the formation.
3) Perks only work if you use them. Just as an example, you've got an Orc Berserker approaching one of your bros, so another uses Quick Hands to switch to a whip and disarms the threat, meaning that even if it does land a hit that will not do any meaningful damage. Like to spam arrows with an archer instead of accurate shots? Bullseye is your friend. A bro is heavily wounded and realistically can't keep fighting? Get them out of there with Rotation so they will live to fight another day. So on, so forth.
4) Terrain and timing. Simple one as well, if you're fighting goblins for example then make sure you are fighting at night, it's a bad idea to drag your enemies into rocky areas as you're gambling with uneven ground being in your or their favor, so on, so forth.
5) Use the formation as a weapon. Make intentional gaps to surround less intelligent enemies, create wedges to make room for your rear line to do their thing, spread out to flank lesser threats, go ham.
6) If unsure of your own abilities, fight dirty. If an enemy is willing to chase you onto a road, they are willing to chase you into the nearest patrol. Personally recommend it only with Lindwurm fights.

[Butcher]

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Go ahead, name it. I know you won't because it would require too much effort and you are not about that.

Once again, since combat is the main attraction you can go back to Battle Brothers. Sadly I don't think Wartales will include full miss RNG you love so much.

Alright, off we go:
1) More people = more problems. If you don't kit out your bros properly before expanding your company, then you will just decrease your own odds of survival as each individual bro is far weaker than each individual companion in Wartales, so the more enemies there are, the more you're rigging the game against yourself early on.
2) Bringing the right tool for the job. Nets, whips, grenades, you name it, those aren't just fancy things to look at in the stores, they can and will be useful to deal with certain opponents that would otherwise rock your ♥♥♥♥ if you just storm into the fight banking on RNG alone, not to mention bringing axes to break shields, hammers to break armor, and polearms mixed with regular weapons to further utilize the formation.
3) Perks only work if you use them. Just as an example, you've got an Orc Berserker approaching one of your bros, so another uses Quick Hands to switch to a whip and disarms the threat, meaning that even if it does land a hit that will not do any meaningful damage. Like to spam arrows with an archer instead of accurate shots? Bullseye is your friend. A bro is heavily wounded and realistically can't keep fighting? Get them out of there with Rotation so they will live to fight another day. So on, so forth.
4) Terrain and timing. Simple one as well, if you're fighting goblins for example then make sure you are fighting at night, it's a bad idea to drag your enemies into rocky areas as you're gambling with uneven ground being in your or their favor, so on, so forth.
5) Use the formation as a weapon. Make intentional gaps to surround less intelligent enemies, create wedges to make room for your rear line to do their thing, spread out to flank lesser threats, go ham.
6) If unsure of your own abilities, fight dirty. If an enemy is willing to chase you onto a road, they are willing to chase you into the nearest patrol. Personally recommend it only with Lindwurm fights.

Surprise, I knew all of that. It is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ basic ♥♥♥♥ you are peddling. I expected more after you acted so high and mighty.

[Wandering Flare]

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Alright, off we go:
1) More people = more problems. If you don't kit out your bros properly before expanding your company, then you will just decrease your own odds of survival as each individual bro is far weaker than each individual companion in Wartales, so the more enemies there are, the more you're rigging the game against yourself early on.
2) Bringing the right tool for the job. Nets, whips, grenades, you name it, those aren't just fancy things to look at in the stores, they can and will be useful to deal with certain opponents that would otherwise rock your ♥♥♥♥ if you just storm into the fight banking on RNG alone, not to mention bringing axes to break shields, hammers to break armor, and polearms mixed with regular weapons to further utilize the formation.
3) Perks only work if you use them. Just as an example, you've got an Orc Berserker approaching one of your bros, so another uses Quick Hands to switch to a whip and disarms the threat, meaning that even if it does land a hit that will not do any meaningful damage. Like to spam arrows with an archer instead of accurate shots? Bullseye is your friend. A bro is heavily wounded and realistically can't keep fighting? Get them out of there with Rotation so they will live to fight another day. So on, so forth.
4) Terrain and timing. Simple one as well, if you're fighting goblins for example then make sure you are fighting at night, it's a bad idea to drag your enemies into rocky areas as you're gambling with uneven ground being in your or their favor, so on, so forth.
5) Use the formation as a weapon. Make intentional gaps to surround less intelligent enemies, create wedges to make room for your rear line to do their thing, spread out to flank lesser threats, go ham.
6) If unsure of your own abilities, fight dirty. If an enemy is willing to chase you onto a road, they are willing to chase you into the nearest patrol. Personally recommend it only with Lindwurm fights.

Surprise, I knew all of that. It is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ basic ♥♥♥♥ you are peddling. I expected more after you acted so high and mighty.

I highly doubt you knew any of it if you manage to fall for the "game is RNG fest" whining.

I know them, you supposedly know them, I have no issues circumventing the RNG with them, you fall to the RNG completely, what's the logical conclusion?

[Butcher]

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Surprise, I knew all of that. It is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ basic ♥♥♥♥ you are peddling. I expected more after you acted so high and mighty.

I highly doubt you knew any of it if you manage to fall for the "game is RNG fest" whining.

I know them, you supposedly know them, I have no issues circumventing the RNG with them, you fall to the RNG completely, what's the logical conclusion?

Not a single thing you listed removes RNG. Keep on gambling Grug.

[Wandering Flare]

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

I highly doubt you knew any of it if you manage to fall for the "game is RNG fest" whining.

I know them, you supposedly know them, I have no issues circumventing the RNG with them, you fall to the RNG completely, what's the logical conclusion?

Not a single thing you listed removes RNG. Keep on gambling Grug.

It doesn't, but it brings you to the highest likelyhood of succeeding regardless of RNG, so if you do get that 5% chance to miss, it is completely irrelevant.

But hey, keep blaming a small chance of failure for your complete chance of refusing to learn.

[Butcher]

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Not a single thing you listed removes RNG. Keep on gambling Grug.

It doesn't, but it brings you to the highest likelyhood of succeeding regardless of RNG, so if you do get that 5% chance to miss, it is completely irrelevant.

But hey, keep blaming a small chance of failure for your complete chance of refusing to learn.

Let me remind you - you already listed the most basic ♥♥♥♥ as if that is some great secret. In case the advice you gave was genuine - I feel genuinely sorry for you.

[Gwizzz]

If they ever updated the graphics on Battle Brothers I might take a closer look. But it is so fugly to look at I don't care if it beats Wartales in every other category.. I'd never get past that. /shudder

[Wandering Flare]

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

It doesn't, but it brings you to the highest likelyhood of succeeding regardless of RNG, so if you do get that 5% chance to miss, it is completely irrelevant.

But hey, keep blaming a small chance of failure for your complete chance of refusing to learn.

Let me remind you - you already listed the most basic ♥♥♥♥ as if that is some great secret. In case the advice you gave was genuine - I feel genuinely sorry for you.

Indeed, the most basic ♥♥♥♥ that circumvents the RNG almost entirely. The most basic ♥♥♥♥ that I use and have no issues with the RNG whatsoever. The most basic ♥♥♥♥ that you claim to know and *still* whine about the RNG. It's like if I played Wartales with my eyes closed and complained the game is a gamble, seriously.

So yes, that advice was genuine, because clearly you need every last bit of it, either to learn it for the first time and maybe get better at the game, or be reminded of it if you learned it at some point and still failed to apply any of it, and maybe get better at the game.

[DitoLoco]

I think BB is a masterpiece and i do not think any game on a market can really compare to it.
I enjoy War Tales (doing my first run, after i played one run during early access) and I know that's my last run.
BB is different beast all together. I think also that it has so much more perks to choose from is bonus.

[Butcher]

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Indeed, the most basic ♥♥♥♥ that circumvents the RNG almost entirely.

I'm sorry, what?

Publicado originalmente por Wandering Flare:

Publicado originalmente por Butcher:

Not a single thing you listed removes RNG.

It doesn't

[ambi]

Publicado originalmente por Gwizzz:

If they ever updated the graphics on Battle Brothers I might take a closer look. But it is so fugly to look at I don't care if it beats Wartales in every other category.. I'd never get past that. /shudder

+1