Defensive Stance changes

[Mush]

I'm guessing there's no way to change the Defensive Stance skill back to how it worked before? Is it even possible to mod it back?

[mrak20105]

In more detail - what exactly do you not like about the changes?

[Mush]

I believe before the latest change it granted deflection (damage taken reduced by 70%) and gifted a temp valour point. Now it does something completely different, and is mostly useless, at least for how I setup my characters.

I'm certainly happy with tweaking skills to create balance but this totally changes the skill does it not? Or am I missing something?

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Mush:

I believe before the latest change it granted deflection (damage taken reduced by 70%) and gifted a temp valour point. Now it does something completely different, and is mostly useless, at least for how I setup my characters.

I'm certainly happy with tweaking skills to create balance but this totally changes the skill does it not? Or am I missing something?

This is amazing! I had no idea that there were real users of this skill, how it was set up before the last update. You miss out on the fact that you exchange a temporary valor point and a 70% damage reduction for a basic action. But a basic action is not only a blow to the enemy, but also double movement, or a boarding attack, or "finding a way out of the damned village". And a 70% damage reduction is easily compensated for by oil on the weapon. But now a tank with AP can generate valor points with every attack on him! This is great. For me, a savage with a mace and an alazar shield, even without making a move, can give the squad several APs.
Place your tank first in front of the enemy. As intended for a "tank". And start with fighters who need to go first (buff to the squad, debuff to the enemy). And then you will understand "what you are missing".;))

[Mush]

I would use it to lock an opponent in combat, starting with a valour skill like destabilising strike, following by defensive stance to negate most return damage and gain the valour point back. We all play these games differently after all and I would have been all for creating a new skill that does what you clearly like in this change.

I'm guessing that the change is permanent and there is no way to mod it back to it's original use?

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Mush:

I would use it to lock an opponent in combat, starting with a valour skill like destabilising strike, following by defensive stance to negate most return damage and gain the valour point back. We all play these games differently after all and I would have been all for creating a new skill that does what you clearly like in this change.

I'm guessing that the change is permanent and there is no way to mod it back to it's original use?

If you use a swordsman as a tank, with a destabilizing blow, then the change is even more beneficial to you. Apply "Sticky Oil" or "Strengthening Oil" to your swordsman's weapon. On the first turn, you lose a temporary valor point, but you can get it back when your opponent attacks him with a counterattack, and then you also get AP for attacking your swordsman in the back, if you can't immediately finish off your opponent (imbalance + basic attack + AP).

[Spawnling]

It is kind of redundant.
Valorous Duel + Shield with Protection (e.g. all regular Shields you craft) does the same.
On top you have the flexibility to use Taunt instead of Protection if the enemy has multi hits or AoE.

Actually it's better/more flexible
- You only spend 1 Valor Point, instead of spending 2 points and generating 1 temporary point.
- You can Change the sequence in case the enemy can Riposte or an archer is targeting an area you want to cross
- You can disengege with Run, engage with your basic attack for free.
- You gain a VP if negaged by an enemy

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Spawnling:

It is kind of redundant.
Valorous Duel + Shield with Protection (e.g. all regular Shields you craft) does the same.
On top you have the flexibility to use Taunt instead of Protection if the enemy has multi hits or AoE.

Actually it's better/more flexible
- You only spend 1 Valor Point, instead of spending 2 points and generating 1 temporary point.
- You can Change the sequence in case the enemy can Riposte or an archer is targeting an area you want to cross
- You can disengege with Run, engage with your basic attack for free.
- You gain a VP if negaged by an enemy

Very funny and tense, a duel, when a savage with a brand on his helmet, on a counterattack, and with an Alazar shield, is attacked by a Defender (Guard). If your companion has a high % critical hit, then a duel occurs, where the player is in the role of a spectator. Two hits of the Defender - one hit of your tank - two hits of the Defender - a hit of your tank, etc. And each attack generates a temporary point of valor. The tank had to be given a belt improvement to dodge the first hit, otherwise the loss of the tank is possible. ;)

[Spawnling]

Originally posted by mrak20105:

Very funny and tense, a duel, when a savage with a brand on his helmet, on a counterattack, and with an Alazar shield, is attacked by a Defender (Guard). If your companion has a high % critical hit, then a duel occurs, where the player is in the role of a spectator. Two hits of the Defender - one hit of your tank - two hits of the Defender - a hit of your tank, etc. And each attack generates a temporary point of valor. The tank had to be given a belt improvement to dodge the first hit, otherwise the loss of the tank is possible. ;)

Taunt, 80% guard (Hardening Oil) and perforating oil is more than enough for my Warrior to win the fight ;)

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Spawnling:

Originally posted by mrak20105:

Very funny and tense, a duel, when a savage with a brand on his helmet, on a counterattack, and with an Alazar shield, is attacked by a Defender (Guard). If your companion has a high % critical hit, then a duel occurs, where the player is in the role of a spectator. Two hits of the Defender - one hit of your tank - two hits of the Defender - a hit of your tank, etc. And each attack generates a temporary point of valor. The tank had to be given a belt improvement to dodge the first hit, otherwise the loss of the tank is possible. ;)

Taunt, 80% guard (oil with in position) and perforating oil is more than enough for my Warrior to win the fight ;)

Well, firstly - with the belt improvement for dodging the first blow (DLC Pits) my savage wins any duel. Secondly - if you play with hidden moves of the enemy, then you do not know who will attack your tank, and you will not be able to weaken the attacker, taunt. In some battles, my tank does not move at all, but just stands and kills the impudent ones who decided to disturb his peace. ;)

[Spawnling]

Originally posted by mrak20105:

Well, firstly - with the belt improvement for dodging the first blow (DLC Pits) my savage wins any duel. Secondly - if you play with hidden moves of the enemy, then you do not know who will attack your tank, and you will not be able to weaken the attacker, taunt. In some battles, my tank does not move at all, but just stands and kills the impudent ones who decided to disturb his peace. ;)

Got an archer for that. Can kill 8-12 enemies turn 1, thanks to the Recoil Shot rework + Pirate Bow. So most of my team wont move...
Game has some real late game balance issues.

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Spawnling:

Originally posted by mrak20105:

Well, firstly - with the belt improvement for dodging the first blow (DLC Pits) my savage wins any duel. Secondly - if you play with hidden moves of the enemy, then you do not know who will attack your tank, and you will not be able to weaken the attacker, taunt. In some battles, my tank does not move at all, but just stands and kills the impudent ones who decided to disturb his peace. ;)

Got an archer for that. Can kill 8-12 enemies turn 1, thanks to the Recoil Shot rework + Pirate Bow. So most of my team wont move...
Game has some real late game balance issues.

Maybe in the new update, new enemies will appear? I hope so. I would like the enemy to get a strong weapon, or a dangerous skill "invisibility" while not moving. I would have to come up with a new tactic - how to detect an invisible archer or daggerman. ;). By the way, about "invisibility" - I asked to add more often, locations with morning fog, but apparently the voices of protest were stronger. Maybe it would make sense for the enemy to always be invisible at level 15 - until he moves? Or ALWAYS make the first move? Or be an exact copy of your squad, like in the DLC (Pits). It would be interesting to try.

[Spawnling]

Originally posted by mrak20105:

Originally posted by Spawnling:

Got an archer for that. Can kill 8-12 enemies turn 1, thanks to the Recoil Shot rework + Pirate Bow. So most of my team wont move...
Game has some real late game balance issues.

Maybe in the new update, new enemies will appear? I hope so. I would like the enemy to get a strong weapon, or a dangerous skill "invisibility" while not moving. I would have to come up with a new tactic - how to detect an invisible archer or daggerman. ;). By the way, about "invisibility" - I asked to add more often, locations with morning fog, but apparently the voices of protest were stronger. Maybe it would make sense for the enemy to always be invisible at level 15 - until he moves? Or ALWAYS make the first move? Or be an exact copy of your squad, like in the DLC (Pits). It would be interesting to try.

I think there's lots of ways.
Personally I don't think it's a good idea to obfuscate the player's vision in a strategy game as much as possible.

Looking at weapons and armor stats, they use exponential curves using 2 points. ( f(x) = c*a^x ) That value gets multiplied by rarity and multiplied by item quality.
Aptitude points add a linear bonus of +2.

Basically the higher your level, the less important your main attributes are.
Even if you put 10 Aptitude points into dex (so +20), you already get like +30-40 from your class specialization, another +130 from your weapon and maybe around +10 base growth from your levels, another 10 from alchemy, +4 (+10 DLC) per armor layer.

Meanwhile putting some of them into crit hit will lead to 100% crit chance, permanently doubling your damage and you have points to spare for movement and Willpower.

This system is one major imbalance I see in the game.
--> Balance Attributes, Armor and Weapons stats.


For more challenging fights simple things like the majority of enemies having 15 Willpower might be enough. This would give them a chance to survive turn 1.

Which leads to the next issue: The reinforcement system shouldn't be a units appear at random locations of the map.

Deserters could use units from all other factions, instead of being their own.

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Spawnling:

Originally posted by mrak20105:

Maybe in the new update, new enemies will appear? I hope so. I would like the enemy to get a strong weapon, or a dangerous skill "invisibility" while not moving. I would have to come up with a new tactic - how to detect an invisible archer or daggerman. ;). By the way, about "invisibility" - I asked to add more often, locations with morning fog, but apparently the voices of protest were stronger. Maybe it would make sense for the enemy to always be invisible at level 15 - until he moves? Or ALWAYS make the first move? Or be an exact copy of your squad, like in the DLC (Pits). It would be interesting to try.

I think there's lots of ways.
Personally I don't think it's a good idea to obfuscate the player's vision in a strategy game as much as possible.

Looking at weapons and armor stats, they use exponential curves using 2 points. ( f(x) = c*a^x ) That value gets multiplied by rarity and multiplied by item quality.
Aptitude points add a linear bonus of +2.

Basically the higher your level, the less important your main attributes are.
Even if you put 10 Aptitude points into dex (so +20), you already get like +30-40 from your class specialization, another +130 from your weapon and maybe around +10 base growth from your levels, another 10 from alchemy, +4 (+10 DLC) per armor layer.

Meanwhile putting some of them into crit hit will lead to 100% crit chance, permanently doubling your damage and you have points to spare for movement and Willpower.

This system is one major imbalance I see in the game.
--> Balance Attributes, Armor and Weapons stats.


For more challenging fights simple things like the majority of enemies having 15 Willpower might be enough. This would give them a chance to survive turn 1.

Which leads to the next issue: The reinforcement system shouldn't be a units appear at random locations of the map.

Deserters could use units from all other factions, instead of being their own.

1. If the enemy survives at 15 willpower, then the savage build with a mace, which I just bragged about, will not be successful.
2. If the enemy has only 1 HP left, then the Cutthroat will be imba even with an insignificant blow.
3. Spearmen will lose the Valor Point skill for killing.
4. Archers will lose the Valor Point skill for killing.
5. Berserker and Pugilist turn into funny clowns
6. Everyone starts playing only Poisoner.
So-so tactics. ;)
I do not agree that there is an imbalance in the late game, due to the high % critical hit. When the squad is at the initial stage of the game, then the critical hit almost does not matter, and the player is forced to invest in strength and dexterity. On Extreme difficulty, I invested in strength and dexterity, because otherwise the damage would not be enough. Then, of course, I increased the critical strike with professions and armor slots, and food.

[Spawnling]

Originally posted by mrak20105:

I do not agree that there is an imbalance in the late game, due to the high % critical hit. When the squad is at the initial stage of the game, then the critical hit almost does not matter, and the player is forced to invest in strength and dexterity. On Extreme difficulty [...]

Maybe 15 Will isn't a good idea.

You only need to invest points into your main attribute on the highest difficulty. Any difficulty below that allows you to fully go movement, will, crit.

Honestly, the highest difficulty should not be and never be what the game is balanced around.
"When I play on the highest difficulty, where enemy stats are doubled (exeggerated) I need to put some points into that stat.", really doesn't sound like an argument for the game's balance.

[mrak20105]

Originally posted by Spawnling:

Originally posted by mrak20105:

I

Maybe 15 Will isn't a good idea.

You only need to invest points into your main attribute on the highest difficulty. Any difficulty below that allows you to fully go movement, will, crit.

Honestly, the highest difficulty should not be and never be what the game is balanced around.
"When I play on the highest difficulty, where enemy stats are doubled (exeggerated) I need to put some points into that stat.", really doesn't sound like an argument for the game's balance.

You and I understand that if you make the initial playthrough more difficult, according to the enemy's statistics, then many beginners (and even not beginners, but myself) will find the game too difficult. On Extreme difficulty, the enemy's statistics do not double. It is more difficult to play because of the more problematic obtaining of additional valor points. Yes, I had to add skill points to the main stats so that the skill build worked. Here you say: "My archer kills 15 opponents ...", - but mine does not kill. Although he has 100% critical damage, but he acts in a squad, does his part of the job, and then another fighter finishes off. And this part of the battle has a goal, to get as many temporary valor points as possible. I will not insist on my rightness, but it is better to complicate the battle with unexpected opponents, for whom the player is not ready, than by decreasing or increasing the number of stats.