Two-Handed Weapons classes

[Stevie Lee]

Maybe it's just how I play, but I just don't find these classes (e.g. two hand hammer, two hand sword) to be effective as an offensive killer class. I only started using them because of the ease of getting legendary weapons for them, but they just don't deliver compared to other classes. Is it because they are only level 5-6? Do they get better? For me, sword (or mace) and board provide point defense, with supporting spearmen. Both classes have excellent attacks, but also continue to do high DPS on defense (e.g. riposte, attacks of opportunity for spears), to the point where they get multiple kills both while attacking and defending. For pure offense I like the pugilist class best now; they get kills like mad on offense, but don't do much on defense. Archers are niche, but with legendary bow they are handy for certain situations (mass troops with modest armor/guard). The two handed weapons though, can only get multiple kills if enemies are tightly grouped, and they use a lot of valor points compared to other classes. Is it my play-style? Are they weak? Am I stupid?

[Cappuccin0]

For sure i play THE MAX difficult only and i cant find a place for double handed weapons in team too. Only one way i finded how to use double handed weapon is : to have only one man with 2h weapon and ALLWAYS(or almost allways) make 1st move with him in every battle. It can be swordman deffender class to buff all team at start, or it can be axe man with +150% 1st attack to oneshot 2-3 ppl or give x2movespeed to team. It can be hummer with slow on 2 lvl to slow the most dangerous opponents at start.
Maybe there is the new way to use double handeds: just make moves for "build walls" with opponents, and at the end of 1st turn 2h warrior is going to break them all.
I have 1000 hours in Wartales for now but i still dont like playstyle with 2h ppl if i play max difficult. Cuz at some step of game they allways die xdxdxd

[Stevie Lee]

Originally posted by Cappuccin0:

For sure i play THE MAX difficult only and i cant find a place for double handed weapons in team too. Only one way i finded how to use double handed weapon is : to have only one man with 2h weapon and ALLWAYS(or almost allways) make 1st move with him in every battle. It can be swordman deffender class to buff all team at start, or it can be axe man with +150% 1st attack to oneshot 2-3 ppl or give x2movespeed to team. It can be hummer with slow on 2 lvl to slow the most dangerous opponents at start.
Maybe there is the new way to use double handeds: just make moves for "build walls" with opponents, and at the end of 1st turn 2h warrior is going to break them all.
I have 1000 hours in Wartales for now but i still dont like playstyle with 2h ppl if i play max difficult. Cuz at some step of game they allways die xdxdxd

I use mine similar to how you describe, but having them make first move doesn't always make sense tactically, it is just because that is the only way they get grouping. Maybe I will drop them for another class that is more fun.

[Melmak]

Playing extreme ironman, up to lvl 6 now and I dont use 2h as well.
Even my 1h shield berserker died multiple times/runs.

I feel 2h guys are not vital part of the team. you need tanks and they cant tank. In terms of overall damage output I feel like archer and rouge is better and dont care about grouping o enemies.

Honestly I feel like there is too small of a difference in terms of damage output between 1h and 2h. 1h is much better as with shield you get not only more passive stats from shield but get better armor and get a deflection skill which nulifies 1 attack with encouragement from swordsman.

I will try to rectuit 2h axe at lvl 8 when he gets aoe pull and have gear for him prepared from the get go, maybe this works.

One problem this game has is its difficult recruit new people as for some reson they are always lower lvl (bad design) and your party fights are based od your highest lvl in team. New guys dont get traits your main tem has and usually get worse weapons and often are lvl blocked (like you recruit lvl 4 guy when your party is lvl 5) an you cant even give him lvl 5 gear. You need to babysit this new ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thats using lvl 2 gear and in the mean time you are fighting lvl 7 enemies and all enemies are getting stronger (more of them coz of new recruit). Terrible design.

[DaddyC]

wrongdoer + fighter 2 hand hammer (ignore all guard) + small gauntlet / back brace + 10% knock back health stamp. Can consistently hit 1k+ aoe crits (lvl 15) = one shot enemies with no valor usage. Can instant kill 2 - 4 on first round depending on positioning. Subsequent rounds need more care if the enemy has deflection. Wears heavy armor so can tank "some" enemies if you use during initial engagement. This is the only 2h build that I cant replicate using 1h (High AOE damage with no valor usage).

[Včelí medvídek]

Interesting. I am new to game but now I have well rounded group of lvl 5-6 mercs. My 2h axe is probably favorite over all - with 100% bonus maim followed by rampage and even Wrath i often look one some ~150 dmg opener for almost neutral VP cost. No other character is even close. Yes she need 2+ enemies close to each other to shine like this but it is actually super rare otherwise. And she stay among top with cutthroat or bruiser against single target too anyway.

Than I use Lucilla 2h hammer, it is jsut tricky with that first attack coming 2nd trun, admit this is quite situational, and another is pikemen - both the damage and effect of spearwall are fantastic for cancel enemy turn.

I have also fighter and protector with shields and even though they are heavy armored and solid, for tanking evne with riposite their damage is realtively pitiful and (and kinda harming they are slow.. in msot battles random characters tank instead anyway)

[Mikeavelli]

With the 2H axe spin for win move, pull, and +100% damage from the first hit skill, you'll routinely kill 3-4 enemies on the first round.

With the 2H Hammerman you can pick up Dagan's hammer from the Tiltren tomb, which does 3-hit on groups. Put a proc-on-hit oil on there, and you'll melt enemies.

I haven't found a good use for 2H swordsman.

[Cotaks]

Funny, i dont see the use of spearman, and more then 1 rogue.

I do like 2H warriors they hit like a truck, early game their good and good as an offtank, at lvl 5-8+ they become real beasts, you walk in and warrior will kill like 2-4 people just in his first turn, making the fight a lot shorter.

My setup is always:
2x 1H swordsman(fighter skill, the kick is amazing) tanks
1x archer (any skills you like, but archer type not beastmaster)
1x rogue (cuttroath till you can learn assasin)
2-4x 2H warriors (default craftable 2h axe, ignore guard on first hit, etc.)

[Ovrlord Etna]

I use 1 of each specialization, so that means lots of enemies, which means my 2h units can cleave down a bunch before they even get to move. I send my 2h mace guy (triple swing cleave mace) and 2h axe guy (more damage less targets axe) and they will take out 4-8 units on turn 1 by themselves.

[Stevie Lee]

Originally posted by Mikeavelli:

With the 2H axe spin for win move, pull, and +100% damage from the first hit skill, you'll routinely kill 3-4 enemies on the first round.

With the 2H Hammerman you can pick up Dagan's hammer from the Tiltren tomb, which does 3-hit on groups. Put a proc-on-hit oil on there, and you'll melt enemies.

I haven't found a good use for 2H swordsman.

I have Dagan's hammer, but don't have alchemy advanced beyond basic strength and crit oils, and even with three hits it couldn't even kill wildlife, let alone tough enemies.

[Flavalicious]

Originally posted by Stevie Lee:

Maybe it's just how I play, but I just don't find these classes (e.g. two hand hammer, two hand sword) to be effective as an offensive killer class. I only started using them because of the ease of getting legendary weapons for them, but they just don't deliver compared to other classes. Is it because they are only level 5-6? Do they get better? For me, sword (or mace) and board provide point defense, with supporting spearmen. Both classes have excellent attacks, but also continue to do high DPS on defense (e.g. riposte, attacks of opportunity for spears), to the point where they get multiple kills both while attacking and defending. For pure offense I like the pugilist class best now; they get kills like mad on offense, but don't do much on defense. Archers are niche, but with legendary bow they are handy for certain situations (mass troops with modest armor/guard). The two handed weapons though, can only get multiple kills if enemies are tightly grouped, and they use a lot of valor points compared to other classes. Is it my play-style? Are they weak? Am I stupid?

Suspect some of the commentators aren't playing on the higher difficulty lol.

Not all 2 handed melee classes are created equal. The sword 2 hander can be a pretty sick build if you have a few critical pieces of gear/builds/professions. One my best warriors atm is a 2 handed sworder with the helmet that adds bleed to your weapon for 1 round (but its actually forever for some reason lol), and shes got a skill book on lacerate and wraith as a finisher. So she can drop 2 or 3 enemies in a single turn on her own, and anything that survives is bleeding and dies after they get a turn. I find the 2 handed axe and mace both get out performed by their 1 handed brethren on average however i still have 1 of each in my group comp for the variety and some of the supporting skills. 2 handed fighters can also be really good for valour economy, use orderly on them and every time they hit multiple enemies they 2 get AP back, sometimes you can spend 2 valour and get 4 back while cleaving a bunch of enemies which is more then most classes can do in a single turn.

Few CRITICAL elements:
1. Movement. If your 2 handed characters don't have a minimum of 15+ movement, you dun goofed. You need to be able to swing and back off behind the front liners (also helpful for getting ideal AOE position)
2. Willpower to 15 (obviously)
3. Sprint can be especially handy for getting in and out as it lets you dash through friendly lines in a way normal movement cant
4. Build for socket armour and don't skimp on raw armour value on your gear. You should have plenty of +dmg/crit abilities from your team comp, your melee 2 handers shouldn't have half the armour of your front liners, it should be about 75% as much.
5. Correct professions. In the early game I won't touch a 2 handed melee class because im trying to get the core trades covered. You want something that gives Strength as most of the 2 handed weapons scale better off that then crit (multi hit weapons critting with low str will hardly scratch late game enemies). Don't bother building con because your not going to tank 3 enemies at once and a little bit of HP aint going to save you.
6. Recruit them later on in general. The WORST thing you can have is a level 8+ front line, with low level 7 or even level 6 2 handed melee fighters. They will suffer greatly. You want to recruit them after you have about 8 other companions and make sure the hiring level is only 1 less then the highest members of the groups. The inn offers companions 1 level below your average group level, so its entirely possible to have a 2 level difference between top and bottom.

Other 2 handed classes have lots of uses, but of the 3 core melee ones I prefer the 2 handed sword over the others.

Bow guys are great, always go infantryman and use a skill book for the 4 shots per turn overwatch (stupidly OP). Spear guys are also incredible - overwatch + instant stop/end turn for enemies can really bail you out of a sticky situation. Pugilists are complete glass cannons, virtually unmatched dps potential and are technically 2 handed weapon users.

[Flavalicious]

Grabbed a quick screencap of her to show you the build

https://imgur.com/a/HNJqJk4

Her normal attack is 59 damage to everything in 2m, her lacerate activates on a single attack because i used a skill book on it (does 49 damage x 2 to everything in 2m). Wraith will average about 40-45 damage. Gives you a 200 damage output on turn 1 onto up to 3 targets. The legionary ointment ability comes from her helmet (the tooltip is wrong, says gives bleed for 1 turn but never wears off, so for 1 valour she gets to bleed anything she hits, larger the hp pool the more worth this carries of course). The belt buckle she has is from the new DLC which puts irritation on anything she hits which is a forever 5% hp damage everytime an enemy performs an action (multi attack enemies get trucked by this). So in total she can put 15% hp drain on any target she hits, and shes an AOE build so..... With orderly on her by one of your LT's she will get 2 valour for each of her AOE multi swings, so your going to break even on a full alpha strike (2 for lacerate, 1 for wrath, 1 for the bleed on your weapon). The turn AFTER that you don't need to reapply the bleed so you'll gain a valour while getting 2 of her abilities off for basically free lol

Shes got 22 guard, 104 armour, and 80 hp which gives her enough tankyness she can survive a bad round. Movement is 16, which is critical, especially if you have an ovation that can give inspiration making it 32. Shes also got the lvl 8 perk that gives her immunity to bleed and poison. Shes a bloody beast lol. Just takes alot more work to get a really good 2 handed melee user over sword and boarding and just outlasting the enemy