Refugees is actual "evil" faction.

[McDinglefart]

Say whatever you want, but refugees are actual bad guys here.
They invaded the land and do whatever they want.

Bandits at the cave harassing and robing local folks. Too bad you're not having a great time, but that doesn't gives you a right to rob and murder locals.

Farmer stealing crops from his community to support refugee bandits?
At first I thought I'll help the guy, but those refugees come into a town with attidute, you let that man live or we murder y'all...

Then haven quest again, you took a land and cutting down sacred Forrest that would unleash furry of magical pixies on local people because of their actions.
And refuge response - whatever we do what we want, we don't care about your troubles, about your pixies, we will take YOUR land and we will cut down YOUR Forrest for our own convenience.

Then the last straw was Karen with her mother squating someone else property.
Fisherman is right, it is his property and it is his right to demand some squatters out. It's not his fault you got scammed for someone else property.
Karen could've offered some solution, but all she did "You promised to help us, it's our property and we won't leave this fisherman alone until we have our way! And I demand you do something, like kill this innocent fisherman which property we stolen from".

I was happy to slice her throat, justice is served.

So how anyone else would react to finding someone squating their home and demanding to give away his property or else...?

And I also murdered the stealing hobo at the marketplace.

I gave you moneyz, you could've at least shine my boots. Yet, you took my nice gesture and robbed me.

Now you're dead, you're not robbing anyone else.

Refuges are the bad guys, because they invaded someone else lands, rob, steal, murder and claim someone else property as their own, and when met with resistance, they try to use others to murder locals.

I only helped a blacksmith guy, because he used his skills to make a future for himself without harrasing local folks.

No wonder why everyone hates those refuges. In those local folks shoes, refuges would've seen as unreasonable and evil.

Local folks already dealing with rat plague, they they have their own issues and have the right to things they own.

All refuge did was come into someone else lands, steal, rob and claim someone else property as their own.

Moral choices could've been more neutral, but I think writer failed to deliver some ambiguity.

From the story I played and facts I was given, refugees were paint as unlikable, demanding bad people.

It was easy to side with locals, because they were just living their lives while being harrassed by refugees.

[goober shmoober]

siding with the refugees gives you an additional vendor though. I threw my morals out the window since storywise little to nothing changes anyway.

[Corgi-Beast]

Originally posted by H.U.N.K.:

siding with the refugees gives you an additional vendor though. I threw my morals out the window since storywise little to nothing changes anyway.

Is it worth it tho?
I don't really need vendors. I can buy food from an inn or hunt for food.
Playing at expert for the first time and I get food and stuff while playing. Don't need to min-max anything.

[qinlongfei]

Definitely feels like the writer of Wartale missed the mark if the 'main quest' of the starting region was to give more story option for the role players than mechanic challenge players. There could be more complex morality/solutions for a lot of conflict, making the refugees being demanding, whinny little (BEEP) doesn't paint them in a good light.

I think the dev team was trying to portray the desperation they are feeling (because the alternative is the writer just didn't give a flying (BEEP)), but since we don't actually get to show how bad the situation really got for them (most of them are at least all wearing good clothing rather than rags, and are well equipped to fight people), from our perspective they are just pillaging (BEEP)s, even worse, whinny ones.

[Solstius]

Originally posted by Vaflis:

Originally posted by H.U.N.K.:

siding with the refugees gives you an additional vendor though. I threw my morals out the window since storywise little to nothing changes anyway.

Is it worth it tho?
I don't really need vendors. I can buy food from an inn or hunt for food.
Playing at expert for the first time and I get food and stuff while playing. Don't need to min-max anything.

You'd be surprised by how beneficial the 3rd Food Vendor is. Missing an ingredient for one of your cooked meals? 3rd Vendor may have it. Got gold but not enough food even AFTER buying the standard 2 out? 3rd Vendor helps. Also, it's nice to have a pretty face selling something, unlike the cranky old lady who screams YOU TOUCH IT, YOU BUY IT!!!

[DrWilyeCoyote]

Originally posted by Kakas69:

Say whatever you want, but refugees are actual bad guys here.
They invaded the land and do whatever they want.

Bandits at the cave harassing and robing local folks. Too bad you're not having a great time, but that doesn't gives you a right to rob and murder locals.

Farmer stealing crops from his community to support refugee bandits?
At first I thought I'll help the guy, but those refugees come into a town with attidute, you let that man live or we murder y'all...

Then haven quest again, you took a land and cutting down sacred Forrest that would unleash furry of magical pixies on local people because of their actions.
And refuge response - whatever we do what we want, we don't care about your troubles, about your pixies, we will take YOUR land and we will cut down YOUR Forrest for our own convenience.

Then the last straw was Karen with her mother squating someone else property.
Fisherman is right, it is his property and it is his right to demand some squatters out. It's not his fault you got scammed for someone else property.
Karen could've offered some solution, but all she did "You promised to help us, it's our property and we won't leave this fisherman alone until we have our way! And I demand you do something, like kill this innocent fisherman which property we stolen from".

I was happy to slice her throat, justice is served.

So how anyone else would react to finding someone squating their home and demanding to give away his property or else...?

And I also murdered the stealing hobo at the marketplace.

I gave you moneyz, you could've at least shine my boots. Yet, you took my nice gesture and robbed me.

Now you're dead, you're not robbing anyone else.

Refuges are the bad guys, because they invaded someone else lands, rob, steal, murder and claim someone else property as their own, and when met with resistance, they try to use others to murder locals.

I only helped a blacksmith guy, because he used his skills to make a future for himself without harrasing local folks.

No wonder why everyone hates those refuges. In those local folks shoes, refuges would've seen as unreasonable and evil.

Local folks already dealing with rat plague, they they have their own issues and have the right to things they own.

All refuge did was come into someone else lands, steal, rob and claim someone else property as their own.

Moral choices could've been more neutral, but I think writer failed to deliver some ambiguity.

From the story I played and facts I was given, refugees were paint as unlikable, demanding bad people.

It was easy to side with locals, because they were just living their lives while being harrassed by refugees.

Really it's a case of neither side is right, should the refugees kill rob and steal? heck no. could the locals have taken on the refugees to expand their avenues of business and profited off of hhelping them rather than pushing them to live on a mountaintop? yes.

[Corgi-Beast]

Originally posted by qinlongfei:

Definitely feels like the writer of Wartale missed the mark if the 'main quest' of the starting region was to give more story option for the role players than mechanic challenge players. There could be more complex morality/solutions for a lot of conflict, making the refugees being demanding, whinny little (BEEP) doesn't paint them in a good light.

I think the dev team was trying to portray the desperation they are feeling (because the alternative is the writer just didn't give a flying (BEEP)), but since we don't actually get to show how bad the situation really got for them (most of them are at least all wearing good clothing rather than rags, and are well equipped to fight people), from our perspective they are just pillaging (BEEP)s, even worse, whinny ones.

Just like a meat vendor says:
"I understand there's a war in Edoran, but that doesn't mean they can just come into our lands and steal from us."

[Corgi-Beast]

Originally posted by DrWilyeCoyote:

Originally posted by Kakas69:

Say whatever you want, but refugees are actual bad guys here.
They invaded the land and do whatever they want.

Bandits at the cave harassing and robing local folks. Too bad you're not having a great time, but that doesn't gives you a right to rob and murder locals.

Farmer stealing crops from his community to support refugee bandits?
At first I thought I'll help the guy, but those refugees come into a town with attidute, you let that man live or we murder y'all...

Then haven quest again, you took a land and cutting down sacred Forrest that would unleash furry of magical pixies on local people because of their actions.
And refuge response - whatever we do what we want, we don't care about your troubles, about your pixies, we will take YOUR land and we will cut down YOUR Forrest for our own convenience.

Then the last straw was Karen with her mother squating someone else property.
Fisherman is right, it is his property and it is his right to demand some squatters out. It's not his fault you got scammed for someone else property.
Karen could've offered some solution, but all she did "You promised to help us, it's our property and we won't leave this fisherman alone until we have our way! And I demand you do something, like kill this innocent fisherman which property we stolen from".

I was happy to slice her throat, justice is served.

So how anyone else would react to finding someone squating their home and demanding to give away his property or else...?

And I also murdered the stealing hobo at the marketplace.

I gave you moneyz, you could've at least shine my boots. Yet, you took my nice gesture and robbed me.

Now you're dead, you're not robbing anyone else.

Refuges are the bad guys, because they invaded someone else lands, rob, steal, murder and claim someone else property as their own, and when met with resistance, they try to use others to murder locals.

I only helped a blacksmith guy, because he used his skills to make a future for himself without harrasing local folks.

No wonder why everyone hates those refuges. In those local folks shoes, refuges would've seen as unreasonable and evil.

Local folks already dealing with rat plague, they they have their own issues and have the right to things they own.

All refuge did was come into someone else lands, steal, rob and claim someone else property as their own.

Moral choices could've been more neutral, but I think writer failed to deliver some ambiguity.

From the story I played and facts I was given, refugees were paint as unlikable, demanding bad people.

It was easy to side with locals, because they were just living their lives while being harrassed by refugees.

Really it's a case of neither side is right, should the refugees kill rob and steal? heck no. could the locals have taken on the refugees to expand their avenues of business and profited off of hhelping them rather than pushing them to live on a mountaintop? yes.

I'd do the same if I see those people murdering and stealing around.
The game doesn't tell much about the conflict between locals and refugees, but it sure does paint refugees as entitled self-righteous pricks. No wonder nobody wants to hire them and shuns them away.

[Solstius]

Originally posted by Vaflis:

Originally posted by qinlongfei:

Definitely feels like the writer of Wartale missed the mark if the 'main quest' of the starting region was to give more story option for the role players than mechanic challenge players. There could be more complex morality/solutions for a lot of conflict, making the refugees being demanding, whinny little (BEEP) doesn't paint them in a good light.

I think the dev team was trying to portray the desperation they are feeling (because the alternative is the writer just didn't give a flying (BEEP)), but since we don't actually get to show how bad the situation really got for them (most of them are at least all wearing good clothing rather than rags, and are well equipped to fight people), from our perspective they are just pillaging (BEEP)s, even worse, whinny ones.

Just like a meat vendor says:
"I understand there's a war in Edoran, but that doesn't mean they can just come into our lands and steal from us."

Probably the only guy in Tiltren who is looking at the whole situation with impartiality.

[xDogSoldieRx]

I agree with the OP. The refugees are morally wrong here. My "avatar of virtues" would like to help them but fook me, they are so evil !! I felt so dirty after helping the refugee faction in my plays where I sided with them. Ok, disregarding the option you pick for the loot, my take on this:

1. Wealthy Farm
The chief archer guy wanted to execute the thief. The bandit lady told the guy not to do that, everyone walks away. Chief Archer guy says KILL EM ALL !!!! This situation, I agree with bandit lady, everyone walks away. But the Chief Archer guy just yells BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Then he gets b1tchy at you afterwards.

Afterwards in all my other plays, I execute the Chief Archer guy.

2. Sheepfarm Karen
I agree with the fisherman dude here, it is his property and he will do as he damn please. Is there no respect for other people and the laws of the land in this fantasy world?
Entitled karen says YOU WILL HELP ME! THAT FARM WILL BE MINE!
Fisherman dude says MAKE HER GO AWAY. But the option is MURDER?!?! OMG NO ...

I wanted to find a compromise with them. I bought the farm for her, but her entitled karen attitude demanding me and ordering me around pissed me off. Threatening fisherman like a thug goes against my "avatar of virtues" play. Murder is against my acts of virtues as well.

In an ideal situation, I would like to negotiate the karen family to work for the fisherman dude as caretakers of his estate. Win-win. But that damn karen says: SHEEPFARM! MINE! NOW! really piss me off. I want my 50 krowns back from karen.

3. Bandit cave
He goes around like a marauder terror spree shaking down and looting farmers.
The guard captain guy is doing his job to serve and protect.
Bandit guy tells you to kill that guard captain so he can do as he please.
My "avatar of virtues" executed the bandit guy for his evil ways.
The bandit guy must be from the NIGHTLORDS. He loves his terror sprees too much.

Again, I wish I can negotiate a cease fire with them and help them work out their issues. Have the bandit guy repent and work with the locals in exchange for food.
But no, everyone wants the other dead. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! KILL HIM! DO IT!
Fook me... what a situation for my "avatar of virtues"

4. Woodcutter camp
I understand the refugees actions, needs must. Practicality over tradition. But that BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD attitude from both sides really gets me. By the laws of the land, it is the locals land and you must respect the land you are in. But again, I understand they need wood.

Again, I fail to get a compromise where both sides settle this like adults and find a way to get some wood for the refugees. After all, I could buy the sheepfarm for karen, why not wood? Its just wood, no need to spill blood over this.

In my first play, I dont know where to get beans so I sided with the locals. If you side with the refugees you get wood, big deal. I could chop wood myself or sell refugees to the woodmill lady for wood. Now that I know better about the situation, I slaughter the refugees for being marauders.


And finally, the finale, omg I hate the outcome of this.
Again, its BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD bs all over again.
The Blood God really enjoys his stay in Tiltren.

Sorry for long post and thank you for bothering to read to the end.

[Mikeavelli]

If you guys are upset about this, you're gonna *hate* Vertruse.

[Something completely different]

There is no compromise but the edge of a blade.

[w.f.schepel]

Neither side is pretty and that is exactly what this game is all about. You don't get to support the 'good guys' in the fight against clear and well defined evil.

Is stealing OK? Seems a simple question, but what if the alternative is starvation? Is it OK to hang somebody for the theft of a bit of grain? The game is nuanced and offers a far more authentic view of life than high fantasy games.

[Solstius]

Originally posted by w.f.schepel:

Neither side is pretty and that is exactly what this game is all about. You don't get to support the 'good guys' in the fight against clear and well defined evil.

Is stealing OK? Seems a simple question, but what if the alternative is starvation? Is it OK to hang somebody for the theft of a bit of grain? The game is nuanced and offers a far more authentic view of life than high fantasy games.

Oh stealing is MORE THAN ok. If you get the essential setup for it, you can go from Novice to Master Thief in 5 seconds. Best of all, once I use up all the stolen items in one or more ways, I can just pay a small sum as a fine ranging from 20-100 gold. This world is so generous to those who are bad XD

[Robin of Spiritwood]

My band kills for money. We steal for advantage and profit.
But we have a rule:
If we take a contract, we fulfil that contract. Eg- if we talk to the Guard Captain first, we kill Bertram, no matter what he says, offers, or does. If we talk to Bertram first, the Guard is Toast. We have a rep to maintain. It's Business. We're professionals.

So- refugees stealing and killing for money= Same as Us.
Townsfolk fighting refugees to protect property = Same as Us.
World is tough. You get to keep what you can hold. The weak have to backstab the strong - or perish.

[Mistaravim]

i think some folk here never touch grass before...lol