Progression, Party Size & Scaling

[Mercer]

Hi guys,
I am well aware that this discussion has been on now for quite some time and my point is not so much the scaling itself because it's a common practice in a lot of games. What bothers me the most is the tedious, grindy and repetitive character the game has as soon as you hit a certain party size and level.

So my question is if there are any measurements from the devs in place for the upcoming 1.0 release and what are our options to keep the game interesting past a certain point. It simply shouldn't feel like a chore around max level. It should feel much more rewarding for the risk I take with certain battles and encounters.

Looking forward to your insights and opinions!

[Stardustfire]

useing the Free Mode and than saying this

It should feel much more rewarding for the risk I take with certain battles and encounters

contradicts each other to the Extrem. when was Autoscaleing ever giving a Rewarding Feeling? i dont know any game with that crapmechanic that archived this goal.

[Mercer]

so you say using Free Mode is the problem in this game? I think that in games without a proper scaling mechanic it trivializes teh fights at a certain point but I get what you saying.

So what do you do to keep this game interesting in the late game? Have you been to the late game of Wartales yet?

[Jǫrmungandr]

Scaling is necessary to keep up with your progression and maintain gameplay-balance. Region-locked will inevitably leave gradually more and more regions outdated to you, as soon as you level past them. That's a problem. That being said, some players prefer the one, and some prefer the other. Fair enough.

As for levelling being a grind.... Well, it has to be, because this game is long, spanning over hundreds of hours. Level progress has to be in tune with the overall length of the game. Many players don't seem to understand that.

You say:
"It simply shouldn't feel like a chore around max level."

So with other words, you levelled up too quickly... You've reached the pinnacle too early in the game, and now, going forward, your interest is gradually fizzling out. In part because you have little to nothing left to pursue.

[Mercer]

Originally posted by krikkert:

You say:
"It simply shouldn't feel like a chore around max level."

So with other words, you levelled up too quickly... You've reached the pinnacle too early in the game, and now, going forward, your interest is gradually fizzling out. In part because you have little to nothing left to pursue.

yes a very astute comment - so how do I break the cycle?

[Jǫrmungandr]

As for battles potentially being a grind, you can play with smaller parties if you prefer. fewer mercs mean fewer enemies. The devs also need to increase difficulty further. Battles get boring soon enough if they don't punish you and make you bleed.

Also, the patch notes claim that the recent update has reduced the number of animal enemies, for obvious reasons. This turned out to be false for me in my old pre-update campaign. But it turned out to be very much accurate as soon as I started a new campaign. I don't know if that's relevant to you, but it might be, if you haven't tried starting a new campaign recently.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Mercer:

Originally posted by krikkert:

You say:
"It simply shouldn't feel like a chore around max level."

So with other words, you levelled up too quickly... You've reached the pinnacle too early in the game, and now, going forward, your interest is gradually fizzling out. In part because you have little to nothing left to pursue.

yes a very astute comment - so how do I break the cycle?

The solution is first and foremost to stretch the levelling up progress out to match the roughly expected length of a campaign, although there will be some variation from one player to another, of course. Easier said than done.

If a campaign is expected to last f.ex. roughly 250 hours, then you can't reach max after 125 hours... That won't fly. You should isntead reach max after 200-215 hours maybe. But then of course you have players who get upset because they think the levelling is too slow, because they want to be rewarded with shiny things every hour, and so they call it a grind... : /

Procedurally generated content could also be somehting to keep the game interesting past a point.

[Mercer]

I wouldn't go that far to say that people who aren't rewarded in a shorter time span are therefore calling it a grind. I myself would benefit from a more dense gameplay experience in terms of progression and not repeating very similar fights over and over to get the sense of progression. I get that there are some filler fights etc. However I don't think that it should be the player's responsibility to take care when to hit a certain progression wall - it's the game designer's.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Mercer:

I wouldn't go that far to say that people who aren't rewarded in a shorter time span are therefore calling it a grind. I myself would benefit from a more dense gameplay experience in terms of progression and not repeating very similar fights over and over to get the sense of progression. I get that there are some filler fights etc. However I don't think that it should be the player's responsibility to take care when to hit a certain progression wall - it's the game designer's.

Maybe I failed to be specific in my meaning. I did not mean that you and I should be responsible for trying to halt our own progression at this or that point in the game. of course not. Our interest is to push forward. That's the only natural approach. And we can't stop taking contracts and earning XP.

That is rather something that the devs will have to get right. They have to find the balance and make the game accordingly.

[Mercer]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Originally posted by Mercer:

That is rather something that the devs will have to get right. They have to find the balance and make the game accordingly.

yes absolutely - you are playing on region locked I assume?

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Mercer:

Originally posted by krikkert:

yes absolutely - you are playing on region locked I assume?

No. No. Absolutely not. I'm all about free roam. As I wrote above :

"Scaling is necessary to keep up with your progression and maintain gameplay-balance. Region-locked will inevitably leave gradually more and more regions outdated to you, as soon as you level past them. That's a problem."

I need to be free to roam, never having to worry that regions are off-limits to me, neither temporarily (due to region too high level) nor permanently (due to region too low level).

Region-locked is meant for MMORPGs to protect low-level players in PvP, which I don't play, and in linear chapter-based games. Not in games such as this.

[Mercer]

one last question: what is it that is actually scaling in free mode - enemy level AND party size? what is scaling in region locked then?

[Stardustfire]

Scaleing is none existant in Region Locked, the Levels and member sices there are hardcoded, exept Guards and Traders (only in fighting power, not what they sell)

[Mercer]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

Scaleing is none existant in Region Locked, the Levels and member sices there are hardcoded, exept Guards and Traders (only in fighting power, not what they sell)

many thx! so this means that the encounter levels for a specific region are predetermined which also means that there is a certain order to tackle these regions?

[Dorim]

That is correct, with region locked the order progresses depending on which starting region you choose - the further the more difficult, generally

[Mercer]

Originally posted by Dorim:

That is correct, with region locked the order progresses depending on which starting region you choose - the further the more difficult, generally

thank you for your answer!