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Medvezhak Aug 6, 2023 @ 10:45pm
Ranger build and tactics advice?
So I'm kind of new. I read some guide telling Rangers were the strongest class but in my game they are close to useless. What am I doing wrong? (Playing on expert)

I have 10 dudes all of them are level 6 now. I have 1 assassin and 1 strategists. I've already got rid of cutthroat and planning to do the same with assassin. They just do nothing for the team lol. My destroyer, sworsman, berserk and fighter are just killing machines. They all kill 1-4 targets on their 1st turn. Even my lousy archers began to catch up but Rangers? Wow they suck. They can't even kill a single archer. They can't "mop up the battlefield" because those 4 dudes don't leave their targets living or engaged so he can't even backstab anyone. Strategist can only throw a bomb to proc Archers barage that is all.
Last edited by Medvezhak; Aug 6, 2023 @ 10:55pm
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
zaphod Aug 7, 2023 @ 12:23am 
Originally posted by Medvezhak:
So I'm kind of new. I read some guide telling Rangers were the strongest class but in my game they are close to useless. What am I doing wrong? (Playing on expert)

I have 10 dudes all of them are level 6 now. I have 1 assassin and 1 strategists. I've already got rid of cutthroat and planning to do the same with assassin. They just do nothing for the team lol. My destroyer, sworsman, berserk and fighter are just killing machines. They all kill 1-4 targets on their 1st turn. Even my lousy archers began to catch up but Rangers? Wow they suck. They can't even kill a single archer. They can't "mop up the battlefield" because those 4 dudes don't leave their targets living or engaged so he can't even backstab anyone. Strategist can only throw a bomb to proc Archers barage that is all.
You're probably not using them correctly. Assasin is a very strong build (still my favorite) that can eliminate light/medium armored targets and can get to safety with movement reset. He can instantly kill archers even at low lvl (lvl 5 is important for him)... if you can't handle him, you're probably doing something wrong somewhere. Maybe he gave himself inappropriate attributes/skills? ...movement is important + instinctive throw is necessary from my point of view (uprage skill using the book from the brotherhood is important). With instinct. throw can have a lot of attacks per turn + a lot of movement per turn.

A strategist, in my view, requires greater synergy with others. His strength is when others are in engage (the more the better)....if you try to avoid engage the whole game, he won't be of much benefit. ...if you ONLY throw bombs with him, then you really have him for nothing (you don't use his main ability).
Medvezhak Aug 7, 2023 @ 1:39am 
Nothing to mess up really. I got assassin with instinctive throw it does only 9 damage. I put all attributes into dex/crit. Movement covered by armor and my Sentinel. He can reach any target but can't kill anyone. Archer maybe if he gets lucky and crits. While my Fighter can kill 4 Archers in one go with his ridiculous reposts.
zaphod Aug 7, 2023 @ 2:10am 
Point is, that instinct. throw works after EVERY use of the skill. So you have the possibility to have 8 attacks in the early game and after each one there is a roll for (yours) 9 points (theoretically up to 72) . At this stage of the game, the three basic attacks + throws should be enough to somehow eliminate two opponents (you probably won't have VP for more). It's only about VP and even that can be done so that you have more at the end than at the beginning.
Even at the beginning of the game, you can kill min. one character (ideally a ranger) and with the archer, if you don't finish him off, stay engaged (the archer is harmless in this mod).
And you need movement for ALL characters ... the ranger is glass canon and should not get into a fight other than what he wants (that's why he has to run out of range after the attacks are finished or the moves have to be planned so that the attack doesn't go to him).
Crit. hit is very important for a ranger (you can get over 100% at the end of the game)...for me it's more important than dexterity (but that makes sense too). In the end, you get the most important part of dexterity anyway from the weapon (and e.g. movement as an attribute comes at a "worse price").
Last edited by zaphod; Aug 7, 2023 @ 4:22am
Dilligaf Aug 7, 2023 @ 11:26am 
Originally posted by Medvezhak:
Nothing to mess up really. I got assassin with instinctive throw it does only 9 damage. I put all attributes into dex/crit. Movement covered by armor and my Sentinel. He can reach any target but can't kill anyone. Archer maybe if he gets lucky and crits. While my Fighter can kill 4 Archers in one go with his ridiculous reposts.
are you making sure your attacking from behind also? I have killed multiple enemies with a single assassin. Assassins are my fav ranger build. upgrading your skills can help also.
zaphod Aug 7, 2023 @ 11:36am 
Originally posted by Dilligaf:
are you making sure your attacking from behind also? I have killed multiple enemies with a single assassin. Assassins are my fav ranger build. upgrading your skills can help also.
Attacking from behind is better, but assassin also works well face to face. He should kill the archer at lvl 5 even from the front.
Last edited by zaphod; Aug 7, 2023 @ 11:57am
Medvezhak Aug 7, 2023 @ 3:05pm 
Originally posted by Dilligaf:
are you making sure your attacking from behind also? I have killed multiple enemies with a single assassin. Assassins are my fav ranger build. upgrading your skills can help also.

I can't attack anyone from behind. My other teammates kill everyone they engage.

lvl 6 assassin crits around 90 damage or so which is not enough to kill even an archer. So he uses like 2 attacks kills one target and runs away. What's the point if I can hire another fighter and he will outperform him in every aspect.
Doom_Cookies Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:30pm 
As a general piece of advice - ignore STR/DEX/CON when leveling up mercs. Put your attribute points into Willpower until 14 or 15 (optionally - if you do it for one then do it for all of them as it's total party Willpower that matters for Morale in battles), Movement until you're comfortable (I like 12 minimum, after equipment type bonuses), and dump the rest into Crit. This is the min-max stat growth choice for every mercenary unit.

As you level, weapons will give you so much STR/DEX that your stat points used on them will feel wasted later on. Same with CON - Armor value will bloat and extra Health from the stat won't do too much. This trend is especially relevant for Rangers, since their dagger gives stats as high as 2h weapons for other classes, meaning their DEX is unusually bloated by equipment and each attribute point they spend in the stat is even less useful relative to how it'd be for other classes.

This same logic applies to Armor Layers. Layers of the Serpent/Falcon/Rat are basically the best for everyone.

The difference between that min-max and statting whatever is actually quite noticeable by lategame, though you'll be able to beat the game all the same no matter how you stat so do as you desire.

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The efficacy of Ranger's personal damage output is largely reliant on their being enemies Engaged and alive. The way you've built your team is strongly offense oriented, so enemies tend not to be left Engaged for Rangers to really shine. If you had a more tanky team, Rangers would shine. This is especially the case for Cutthroat and Strategist, both of whom need Engaged enemies to even use their specialization action to any meaningful effect.

Mid-lategame, Rangers - Assassins and Poisoners especially - can become incredible reliable single-target damage dealers dedicated to killing even heavy armored enemy tanks in a single turn, with or without them being Engaged. They won't always kill multiple units per turn, but they don't have to - that's not their niche. The niche they do have is one they share with Warrior's Berserker, and they're roughly as good at it.

Throughout the game, they're exceptional damage dealers against bosses who can be engaged, too.

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For Assassin...

Get them that helmet effect that grants them the Legionary's Ointment skill, a 1 VP ability that causes them to Bleed enemies they attack, so that they can apply their own Bleed before using Right Between The Eyes (RBTE). You can cheaply apply the bleed with a throwing knife.

Stack crit on them - you want as close to 100% crit chance as possible (and, lategame, full 100% crit chance is actually possible). Assassins specifically really want all their excess attribute points thrown into Crit as per above, because their class ability has a bonus to crit damage when upgraded.

The Belt Accessory that increases crit chance against bleeding targets, Sharp Fang, is very nice for Assassin, too. Helps ensure RBTE can proc its bonus crit damage.

Make sure they have Wrath from the skill books.

Make sure they have Perforating Oil applied to their weapon, as they have no other way of reducing enemy Guard for themselves. Since you're killing enemies so quickly with your team, I doubt you'll want to set up reduced guard with another unit to let your Assassin take advantage, so this is necessary. Once you can apply two oils, you'll want Sharpening Oil as well.

As a general note, a lot of people swear by Instinctive Throw, but I don't care for it unless I'm specifically building around it. The movement bonus is nice, but it throws off use of Aim with RBTE and wastes any Fury you'd get from kills with Wrath. It also doesn't crit, which plays against Assassin's strengths. I personally prefer to take Deadly Contract - passively applying fragility every turn is no joke.

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For Strategist...

With your party, which doesn't really leave enemies engaged? Just ditch him. But if you really want to make him work, go all-in on Instinctive Throw and use him as a utility/support unit.

For damage, grab The Brave's Oil in Grinmeer, apply it to their weapon, and craft and equip the The Brave's Oil I Concentrate Belt Accessory. This gives you a (near) 100% chance to gain one VP when you use a skill that consumes VP, which will let you use every single skill they'll have without any VP loss. This will let you use up to 11* skills for 11 Instinctive Throw procs for a total of 275% DEX damage from just the passive, every single turn, for no VP cost. I reiterate from before: Instinctive Throw cannot crit.

(* - Weapon Attack, Helmet Skill (Legionary's Ointment?), Throwing Weapon/Bomb, Smoke Screen, Low Blow, Aim, Taunt, Run, Wrath, First Aid)

You can forsake the Throwing Weapon/Bomb and equip the Legendary Offhand, Faithless, to them instead, which you get from Drombach's arena. This weapon is actually a passive effect that does the same thing as Instinctive Throw after every single skill use, but attacking the furthest enemy in range rather than the closest and at 20% DEX rather than 25%. This will bring your total damage every single turn from passive attack effects to a whopping 450% DEX, albeit split between at least two targets and unable to crit.

You'll also get damage from your weapon attack, Wrath, and Smoke Bomb-fueled Attacks of Opportunity as well.

If you happen to catch a target with no other enemies around for 6m, you can slam them with all of this damage.

In the process of doing this, they can apply Weakness on an enemy with Taunt, Blackout in an AoE, and use First Aid on an ally. Again, every single turn for virtually no VP cost. And while going about this, they'll have their Movement value reset after every Instinctive Throw proc, allowing you to use them to attack anyone in the map or scout out foggy zones (usually during snowstorms)/tomb darkness to find enemy locations.

Also worth noting is that bosses are not immune to Blackout.

And you can take Decisive Manoeuvre at level 12 too do it all for a second time on the first turn of battle.

If you find the Elderguard, a Heroic (yellow) Dagger from a unique Vanquish board mission, it pairs very well with all of this. Elderguard attacks the nearest three enemies within an AoE for reduced (50% DEX) damage. Since damage is likely to be spread already and you'll probably have Legionary's Ointment active, you can do some extra damage overall and apply Bleed to 3 targets at the cost of spreading your weapon damage out a bit.

The Behedite's Kriss also pairs well with Elderguard, ironically. If you take Second Weapon at level 10 so you can have both equipped. This will allow you to do massive damage to lonesome targets or AoE damage to groups of targets. It'll work even if you don't have Elderguard, too, since they'll have so much movement that they can hit any unit anywhere on the field - you can hunt down that pain in the ass archer that's tucked in the far corner and end him.
Last edited by Doom_Cookies; Aug 7, 2023 @ 7:33pm
Medvezhak Aug 7, 2023 @ 8:17pm 
Nice, thank you. I'll try them later then on higher levels.
Grinninghound Aug 7, 2023 @ 9:56pm 
i didn't read all that.. i'm sure it's a well thought out and very deep info on them.. basically use them to attack enemies engaged with your other characters.. make sure you have the back line of the square of the enemy for backstab.. this is the easiest way to explain them.. the various classes.. just means there are other things you can do as well as stabbing in the back
Phil Aug 9, 2023 @ 7:20pm 
Instinctive Throw, upgraded is a great skill because after triggering it your movement is reset.

Combine this with lots of usable skills, inspiration and orderly buff from a lieutenant and you can take out a near unlimited number people per round.

Cutthroat's 2VP skill upgrade is reusable if it kills them, with orderly you get the VP back, you can be running around cutting throats for days, I think I've had Hakert take out 8 people in one round before.

You do need at least some of them to be engaged by others, for this to be viable - the Ranger is a finisher and soft target solution.

For real multi Damage potential, the 2H Axe builds are pretty sick for easily taking out 4 to 6 people in your first round.

And of course, you can do both :)
Last edited by Phil; Aug 9, 2023 @ 7:23pm
Linatan Aug 10, 2023 @ 11:25am 
I had similar thoughts and got rid of my Dagger. The only plus that I see is the restoration of movement. Otherwise, other classes simply give out more damage and useful skills. I suppose that in your composition of the group, as in mine, the Dagger is simply not needed.
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Date Posted: Aug 6, 2023 @ 10:45pm
Posts: 11