ARE "YOU" in the warband?

[Lord von Games]

My biggest gripe against Battle Brothers is the game's narrative heavily plays "you and your role" in the merc group, but YOU aren't actually in your own merc group. EVERY fighter is your employee, while it simultaneously has nice story elements about "you" fighting" in the band... you don't. I know you can give up 60% of the game, campaigns, etc., and play a variation of the game that "sort of" makes it feel like "you" are in the battle, but since the game isn't designed for that variation, you always get these weird narration-breaking events and first-person-third-person immersion breaking situations. EXTREMELY immersion-breaking, it's like a non-4th wall break.

So... Wartales?

[Crispy™]

I never played Battle Brothers but I can tell you that Wartales is *almost* an RPG. It's a tactical RPG, just as advertised.

You can stick to your four original core characters along with some add-ons like captured beasts or whatever and it's a bona fide RPG party.

The only thing lacking from this game to make it a full-fledged RPG is a more story-oriented goal. It also doesn't have a huge amount of character customization, but there's just enough there to seem like an RPG.

You'll have to play it and decide for yourself.

[󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡]

No such thing in Wartales. You can assign any merc as captain but he won't be referred as a leader. Local "events" are always experienced from the perspective of a certain merc and you'll get some choices on his behalf. In quests you get to pick a side usually, but again no leader figure of the group is ever mentioned.

And about immersion breaking. There are other stupid ♥♥♥♥ like one of your mercs could become zoophilic and have a romance with a pack pony for example, animals react like they understand the social shenanigans and conflicts of the group and can like and dislike companions. The devs for some reason refuse to fix it.

[Lord von Games]

I'm not feeling well today, and I think my attempt at explaining myself was done... very poorly - not surprised.

In the RPG Pathfinder, Dragon Age, Risen (the list is long, yo get the point), you have party members, and they join "You" your character, who fights with them. In Battle Brothers, even though you have party members that fight with you... you don't actually have your own character.

Do you have your own character, or is it another game where you can find yourself asking... where am I, myself, in this world?

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡:

No such thing in Wartales. You can assign any merc as captain but he won't be referred as a leader. Local "events" are always experienced from the perspective of a certain merc and you'll get some choices on his behalf. In quests you get to pick a side usually, but again no leader figure of the group is ever mentioned.

And about immersion breaking. There are other stupid ♥♥♥♥ like one of your mercs could become zoophilic and have a romance with a pack pony for example, animals react like they understand the social shenanigans and conflicts of the group and can like and dislike companions. The devs for some reason refuse to fix it.

I see. Thanks. So it's a god-game. Disappointing. So many games boast an immersive world... but then they forget the most important character in the game... the player. What's really weird is BB talks about the player, leader of the merc band all the time, from first and third perspectives... but then fails to actually put this player in the game/battle/etc., distracting.

Guess its probably the "shard" for me then... . Shame. Game looks good on so many levels... .

[Crispy™]

"Tactical RPG" will never apply to a first-person oriented, story-based RPG like Witcher 3 or Fallout 4, so no.

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by Crispy™:

"Tactical RPG" will never apply to a first-person oriented, story-based RPG like Witcher 3 or Fallout 4, so no.

I disagree, there are many examples, but that's not the point of this thread (no shade on this game). Thank you for the answers guys.

[Crispy™]

Huh. You listed Pathfinder (I assume you mean Kingmaker) Dragon Age, and Risen. Do you really consider these to be tactical RPGs?

Two of the three contain what can fairly be described as tactical combat, especially PF:KM, but that doesn't put them into the category of tactical RPGs. They're full-on RPGs that happen to have tactical aspects to them.

The "tactical RPG" genre includes games like Jagged Alliance, King's Bounty, King Arthur Knight's Tale, etc. You have a party of adventurers, and they level up and have inventories, etc., but there's no central character necessarily, no "you are the chosen one", which seems more like what you're looking for instead.

Edit: "Huh. You listed Pathfinder (I assume you mean Kingmaker) Dragon Age, and Risen." <-- This portion of my reply was based on your pre-edited post, above.

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by Crispy™:

Huh. You listed Pathfinder (I assume you mean Kingmaker) Dragon Age, and Risen. Do you really consider these to be tactical RPGs?

Two of the three contain what can fairly be described as tactical combat, especially PF:KM, but that doesn't put them into the category of tactical RPGs. They're full-on RPGs that happen to have tactical aspects to them.

The "tactical RPG" genre includes games like Jagged Alliance, King's Bounty, King Arthur Knight's Tale, etc. You have a party of adventurers, and they level up and have inventories, etc., but there's no central character necessarily, no "you are the chosen one", which seems more like what you're looking for instead.

Edit: "Huh. You listed Pathfinder (I assume you mean Kingmaker) Dragon Age, and Risen." <-- This portion of my reply was based on your pre-edited post, above.

You still burning my tail on this? A bit off topic on the question don't you think? I could list a long list of tactical rpgs that the player is a part of.... I prefer them - it's a preference, I'm entitled to have. Thank you to EVERYONE else, who actually spent time answering my question. Thank you (them).

[Crispy™]

My first post answered your questions, didn't it? At least I tried to, anyway.

I simply expounded because it seems to me as if the premise of your question was based on a misconception, on your part, of that a tactical RPG is.

Excuse me for being conversational.

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by Crispy™:

My first post answered your questions, didn't it? At least I tried to, anyway.

I simply expounded because it seems to me as if the premise of your question was based on a misconception, on your part, of that a tactical RPG is.

Excuse me for being conversational.

Thank you, yes. My apologies. And Risen is a terrible example, on my part, you are right however... it is a gross misstatement to declare that tactical rpgs never have the player in them... the list of those that do is immense. As mentioned, Dragon Age (all 3), Pathfinder Kingmaker, Pathfinder Wrath, Final Fantasy, indeterminate number of Fire Emblem clones, Rome Pathway to Power, Divinity, Expeditions (all 3), etc, etc. YES, I consider them to be tactical RPGs, along with many other professional game reviewers and trade papers.

[Crispy™]

Okay, there's nothing wrong with us disagreeing on what a tactical RPG is. They are rather ephemeral terms, afterall.

If you decide NOT to try Wartales, however, I think you're missing out. It's pretty fantastic no matter how it's categorized.

[Jesus_Guy]

I created my own party... so yes?

[Jimib4158]

My captain is Prince Jimi.....ME

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Lord von Games:

My biggest gripe against Battle Brothers is the game's narrative heavily plays "you and your role" in the merc group, but YOU aren't actually in your own merc group. EVERY fighter is your employee, while it simultaneously has nice story elements about "you" fighting" in the band... you don't. I know you can give up 60% of the game, campaigns, etc., and play a variation of the game that "sort of" makes it feel like "you" are in the battle, but since the game isn't designed for that variation, you always get these weird narration-breaking events and first-person-third-person immersion breaking situations. EXTREMELY immersion-breaking, it's like a non-4th wall break.

So... Wartales?

In wartales, your character IS in your group. He will be on every fight.
But he's not the chief, you can make him the captain after some time (or not), but it will stop here. Despite his "Cpt" name, he won't be the chosen one, he will be one guy like any other in your troop, minus be the only ones with "Ltn" to be able to use 2 buildings in your camp.
You can RP, changing names and some faces/looks about your mercs, but it's a game about the evolution of the Global Troop, not about characters by themselves.

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by Fenris:

Originally posted by Lord von Games:

My biggest gripe against Battle Brothers is the game's narrative heavily plays "you and your role" in the merc group, but YOU aren't actually in your own merc group. EVERY fighter is your employee, while it simultaneously has nice story elements about "you" fighting" in the band... you don't. I know you can give up 60% of the game, campaigns, etc., and play a variation of the game that "sort of" makes it feel like "you" are in the battle, but since the game isn't designed for that variation, you always get these weird narration-breaking events and first-person-third-person immersion breaking situations. EXTREMELY immersion-breaking, it's like a non-4th wall break.

So... Wartales?

In wartales, your character IS in your group. He will be on every fight.
But he's not the chief, you can make him the captain after some time (or not), but it will stop here. Despite his "Cpt" name, he won't be the chosen one, he will be one guy like any other in your troop, minus be the only ones with "Ltn" to be able to use 2 buildings in your camp.
You can RP, changing names and some faces/looks about your mercs, but it's a game about the evolution of the Global Troop, not about characters by themselves.

Now that's a detail that is important to OP-question - as is you can create "your character". I'm curious, what makes that character you specifically mention, as "your character IN your group" the player him/herself? Narrative? Dialogue? What happens if that character dies?