Class Tweaks (Ranger)

[Oddball]

Only been playing the game for 60+ hrs, but it's very enjoyable and challenging at the moment.

The one thing that is bugging me the most though is the ill-named Ranger class. It seems it's concept would be better split into:

Assassin - does surprise damage vs. people, higher chance of arresting people
Hunter - does surprise damage vs. animals, can set traps in combat as a skill

But the name of "Ranger" it's silly to me, because it's really a backstabber in the game.

Also would be nice to have mounted units (Lancer, knight) or whatever in future expansions.

The AOE units are flatly annoying to me, as it's very situation dependent to put them to any use in combat without inadvertently getting them surrounded and cut apart, or hitting my own players.

Love the spearmen for their stopping-power skill alone!

Should add a phalanx/shield-wall type of skill that's only usable when warriors with shields and next to spearmen... gradually gives them some sort of defense ability the more they're linked together. And archers can get bonuses if they're protected by a phalanx/shield wall as well. There's no game mechanic yet for this, but could be neat.

[Artful Dodger]

Slightly pernickity, but I would call them 'Rogue' types more than anything else. Rogue/Thief is generally what that sort of class is called. Ranger would maybe lean more towards an Archer class in this game.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally posted by Oddball:

The AOE units are flatly annoying to me, as it's very situation dependent to put them to any use in combat without inadvertently getting them surrounded and cut apart, or hitting my own players.

You will get AOE weapons later which don't have to target an area and then fire in the next turn. This includes Splitter and Dagan's Hammer.

However, even with something Lucilla or a Great Pig Iron, I have discovered that taking the smoke bomb ability on one of my ranger/rogue types will trigger this in the same turn provided the unit with Lucilla/Great Pig Iron or whatever is engaged with an enemy unit when you detonate the bomb. I have three ranger/rogue types in my party, two I took the backstab ability, one I took the smoke bomb. It's a good mix.

[Jǫrmungandr]

The ranger class in this game is indeed more correctly a rogue. It's not the end of the world if it's called ranger, but it's quite odd. Purely for aestethics I would have liked if they renamed it rogue. To me it is a rogue/thief, plain and simple.
The ranger is more correctly a woodsman/wanderer living off the wild and typically being an expert hunter, tracker, archer and marksman, and a decent swordsman if need be. The ranger has, however, largely been ruined to me by most medieval RPG franchises by giving him magic skills and excessive ability to control animals, like a druid, like they've done in d&d. They've bastardized him and turned him into a spellcaster and half-druid who is nothing without his animal pet to do all the heavy lifting for him. They've ruined him.

As for the spearman. You speak of the spearwall. I would have loved to see the spearman being allowed to wield a 1-h spear + shield, and to be able to set up a spearwall with x3 or more spearmen. It's a big miss to me, as they can only be pikemen now... (2-h). This would be especially cool in chokepoints, but the enemy would obviously have to be free to have the same skills.

Also, about the spearman, once you get deeper into the game, you'll discover the tremendous, significant value of the 'Herald', rather than the 'Pikeman' with his stopping power. I mean, you can obviously have both, but the Herald, giving 'FURY' every round to all his teammates within 4-6 m is going to tip the scale massively in your favour when fighting larger mobs, such as the plague zombies, with which you do not want to engage due to their poisonous "aura". The herald boosts your damage to the point where your archers can do most of the damage, and your melee fighters can finish them off with one swipe, without engaging. Never enter f.ex. a haunted village without your herald. Potentially you can defeat the horde without taking any damage, due to the Herald's 'Fury'.

Horses ? Mounted units ? You're dreaming... Slim chance of that happening, however cool it might be.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally posted by krikkert:

They've bastardized him and turned him into a spellcaster and half-druid who is nothing without his animal pet to do all the heavy lifting for him. They've ruined him.

Made me chuckle haha.

I largely agree on the AD&D front. I loved the Archer specialisation in BGI and BGII - you could only ever become 'proficient' with melee weapons like swords, but could become a 'grandmaster' with the bow and that was about it bar other perks and archer specific buffs. Don't think they should get anything more than a touch of magic or druid ability and even then only with certain specialisations.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Originally posted by krikkert:

They've bastardized him and turned him into a spellcaster and half-druid who is nothing without his animal pet to do all the heavy lifting for him. They've ruined him.

Made me chuckle haha.

I largely agree on the AD&D front. I loved the Archer specialisation in BGI and BGII - you could only ever become 'proficient' with melee weapons like swords, but could become a 'grandmaster' with the bow and that was about it bar other perks and archer specific buffs. Don't think they should get anything more than a touch of magic or druid ability and even then only with certain specialisations.

Yeah. Baldur's Gate II : SoA, Icewind Dale... those were the days, eh ? Back then the ranger actually used to be my favourite class, even though even then they did have a tiny little bit of magic skill, which was never sitting right with me. BG2 and IWD are still the two best of all times, in my book, by far. IWD was leaning a bit too heavily towards being a dungeon-crawler, but it was so incredibly atmospheric, so remote, forgotten and immersive. Nostalgia.

By the way, even though we tend to enjoy a bit of magic, and wizards and druids and sorceresses and so forth, I've noticed on his Wartales forum throughout the entirety of EA that the players here are generelly extremely appreciative of the low-fantasy nature of Wartales, myself included. Not because I oppose magic in medieval fantasy per se, but because it tends to be so excessively overdone.

If there is magic, then magic should be sufficiently rare to be special, powerful and meanignful, right ? It shouldn't be easily accesible. The Gandalfs and Saurumans should be rare.
In Faerún/Forgotten Realms your blacksmith neighbour can cast fireballs while laughing, and the dairymaid living on the other side of the street can cast Cone of Cold while giggling like it was nothing, and the playwright in the theatre can cast all sorts of cantrips. It's just growing on trees, you know. Even Minsc the Barbarian imbecile from Rashemen could cast a few spells as far as I recall.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Made me chuckle haha.

I largely agree on the AD&D front. I loved the Archer specialisation in BGI and BGII - you could only ever become 'proficient' with melee weapons like swords, but could become a 'grandmaster' with the bow and that was about it bar other perks and archer specific buffs. Don't think they should get anything more than a touch of magic or druid ability and even then only with certain specialisations.

Yeah. Baldur's Gate II : SoA, Icewind Dale... those were the days, eh ? Back then the ranger actually used to be my favourite class, even though even then they did have a tiny little bit of magic skill, which was never sitting right with me. BG2 and IWD are still the two best of all times, in my book, by far. IWD was leaning a bit too heavily towards being a dungeon-crawler, but it was so incredibly atmospheric, so remote, forgotten and immersive. Nostalgia.

By the way, even though we tend to enjoy a bit of magic, and wizards and druids and sorceresses and so forth, I've noticed on his Wartales forum throughout the entirety of EA that the players here are generelly extremely appreciative of the low-fantasy nature of Wartales, myself included. Not because I oppose magic in medieval fantasy per se, but because it tends to be so excessively overdone.

If there is magic, then magic should be sufficiently rare to be special, powerful and meanignful, right ? It shouldn't be easily accesible. The Gandalfs and Saurumans should be rare.
In Faerún/Forgotten Realms your blacksmith neighbour can cast fireballs while laughing, and the dairymaid living on the other side of the street can cast Cone of Cold while giggling like it was nothing, and the playwright in the theatre can cast all sorts of cantrips. It's just growing on trees, you know. Even Minsc the Barbarian imbecile from Rashemen could cast a few spells as far as I recall.

Agreed, I would like Wartales to stay low fantasy as well. Time and a place for both, to introduce something like magic to Wartales would be silly though.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Agreed, I would like Wartales to stay low fantasy as well. Time and a place for both, to introduce something like magic to Wartales would be silly though.

But surely you're absolutely hyped about BG 3, coming this fall ? A feloww fan of the series you are.
You gonna be a ranger ? Archer ?

[Artful Dodger]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Agreed, I would like Wartales to stay low fantasy as well. Time and a place for both, to introduce something like magic to Wartales would be silly though.

But surely you're absolutely hyped about BG 3, coming this fall ? A feloww fan of the series you are.
You gonna be a ranger ? Archer ?

Thinking possibly Bard if they liven up the sub-classes a bit. Otherwise Ranger Archer type or Maybe Warlock because Eldritch Blast and the sub-classes are so fun, You?

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Originally posted by krikkert:

But surely you're absolutely hyped about BG 3, coming this fall ? A feloww fan of the series you are.
You gonna be a ranger ? Archer ?

Thinking possibly Bard if they liven up the sub-classes a bit. Otherwise Ranger Archer type or Maybe Warlock because Eldritch Blast and the sub-classes are so fun, You?

Maybe I'm boring, but I really like clean classes. No arcane trickster rogue or eldritch knight for me. I'm gonna be a clean, pure tiefling thief. I can spend ages on the character creator, and I've certainly played around with all sorts of characters, but the thief it is. The character is already worked out down to the detail. it's the only other EA game i've ever bought, in addition to Wartales. I'm generally sceptical of doing that.

[Artful Dodger]

Originally posted by krikkert:

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Thinking possibly Bard if they liven up the sub-classes a bit. Otherwise Ranger Archer type or Maybe Warlock because Eldritch Blast and the sub-classes are so fun, You?

Maybe I'm boring, but I really like clean classes. No arcane trickster rogue or eldritch knight for me. I'm gonna be a clean, pure tiefling thief. I can spend ages on the character creator, and I've certainly played around with all sorts of characters, but the thief it is. The character is already worked out down to the detail. it's the only other EA game i've ever bought, in addition to Wartales. I'm generally sceptical of doing that.

Would work well with the 'Criminal' background option. If they had Swashbuckler which I loved in BG, I'd be tempted to go Rogue.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Originally posted by krikkert:

Maybe I'm boring, but I really like clean classes. No arcane trickster rogue or eldritch knight for me. I'm gonna be a clean, pure tiefling thief. I can spend ages on the character creator, and I've certainly played around with all sorts of characters, but the thief it is. The character is already worked out down to the detail. it's the only other EA game i've ever bought, in addition to Wartales. I'm generally sceptical of doing that.

Would work well with the 'Criminal' background option. If they had Swashbuckler which I loved in BG, I'd be tempted to go Rogue.

The 'urchin' is also a good fit for the rogue. that ended up my choice. You sure there is no swashbuckler background this time around ?

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Artful Dodger:

Originally posted by krikkert:

Would work well with the 'Criminal' background option. If they had Swashbuckler which I loved in BG, I'd be tempted to go Rogue.

I just looked it up. There's one called 'Folk hero' whichsounded interesting for a bard, but it emphasizes Animal Handling and Survival, so maybe not. 'Entertainer' seems a good one for your bard.

[Dilligaf]

quote 'The AOE units are flatly annoying to me, as it's very situation dependent to put them to any use in combat without inadvertently getting them surrounded and cut apart or hitting my own players."

The Vanguard with that dagans Hammer is a killing machine. He can take out a group really easy between the extra swings and charging thru multiple guys its not even fair.

[Jǫrmungandr]

Originally posted by Dilligaf:

quote 'The AOE units are flatly annoying to me, as it's very situation dependent to put them to any use in combat without inadvertently getting them surrounded and cut apart or hitting my own players."

The Vanguard with that dagans Hammer is a killing machine. He can take out a group really easy between the extra swings and charging thru multiple guys its not even fair.

True story. Basically hit-and-run. "Relentles Charge", if I recall...

[Oddball]

Originally posted by Dilligaf:

The Vanguard with that dagans Hammer is a killing machine. He can take out a group really easy between the extra swings and charging thru multiple guys its not even fair.

Yeah I just got Dagan's hammer tonight! Absolute ball wrecker, I'm love'n it!