VII-B vs VII-C

[Verboxe]

Newbie kaleun here.After upgrading from Type II to VII-B the option for VII-C appeared along with the IX.Is there any significant difference between VII-B and VII-C?Also, does the IX worth 7.5k renown?

[Vapules]

Depends on wha you want to do. The IX series are long range uboats so you'll be getting missions in the carribean, american coast around 42 and south america. The VIIC is similar in almost every aspect to the VIIB except it dives faster, its slighly slower, and I believe it holds more fuel.

[Oparator Stalker]

Type 2 are coatstle patrol boats, 7 are all meduim range attack boats, all 9 are long range boats. 7 is famious because it was a balence of the type 2 and 9, cheaper to build, and used in wolf pack patrols against the english shipping lanes. How ever in reality, all U-boats pulled there weight no different. Type 21's was 21, not inservice, and only did a few test patrols down by the Caribeans. War was over before it was put to service. Class lables such as B, C? B boats are pre-war regardless what the game did, and common between the 9 and 7. C is the updated version to be better. 40's on the type 9's is the year the boat was drawn up to be laid down for the build. I think it was the Type 7 42 build plans were cancled in favor of the type 21.

Game wise makes no differnce, all boats use the same charts praticly, and you will reach 1942 and be assigned to the 29th flotilla for the rest of the war anyway. And before you know it, it will be over quick. So really, its all about you. Me, I am a type 9 kind of guy, so no matter what, in the end, I will have the type 9... (already finshed the war here..)

hope any of this helps..

[SievertChaser]

The IX has a much, much bigger stock of torpedoes in external blisters, plus a second aft tube. Its core feature is range; the Duplex Diesel (D2 variant) can easily reach Japan.

But it's also a freakishly slow cow.

The game does not emulate Type VIIB's external mounting of the aft tube, preventing a submerged reload.

Ultimately, you're better off jumping to C, and later to C/41 up-armoured variant. The B does not get a conning tower type that has a Heavy Flak (1x37, 2x37 or 4x20); the final variant has a second mini-tower with another 2x20 mm. The C eventually gets the full suite. The Type IX starts with a very useless single-shot 37 mm in addition to the regular 20 mm.

[Discordia]

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

The game does not emulate Type VIIB's external mounting of the aft tube, preventing a submerged reload.

The original type VII U-Boat had the external aft torpedo tube, which as you mentioned, could not be relaoded underwater. The VIIB was created, among other reasons, to solve this problem by moving the torpedo tube to the inside of the boat. It also had the advantage of allowing storage of an extra toprpedo under the deck plates.

[sENoZ]

IX = 22 torpedos ? So what are you waiting for ?

[Oparator Stalker]

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

GWX: I've choosed 2nd battalion (?) in 1940 and automatically got IX-B submarine. One thing I noticed is that IX is slower by 1 knot underwater and may travel only half of distance VII-C could.
On the other hand it's faster and long range, when it is not submerged. Probably better to use IX as UZO surface laucher and XII as an actual underwater submarine.

lol, that is because GWX like many mods for this game are type 7 orientated only. They some how belive it was only the type 7s that did everything, and went everywhere. And the type II's was just a toy boat if you want it and the type 9's only did supplie runs and nothing else.. Even the 88mm gun dosen't work because it is just a flack gun, but I saw a WWII documentry on the German side, useing the 88mm deck gun to sink ships, and watch them load 88mm rounds. In another documentry a Captain of a type 9 U-boat was explaing while shooting his 105mm deck gun to sink a ship off the US coat line, he had to take another position so he wouldn't have lost rounds heading to the US coat beaches, he was afaid of hitting anyone. Even witness stated they seen a German U-boat popping a ship off the coast from the beach, and this drew a crowd. The game makes the deck gun a waste and no mod out there corrects this.

The 7 by fact is a medium range boat. It, In oparation drum beat it was the type 9's that was sent to the US coat line. one is even sunk and sitting still off Texas at the bottom in the gulf of Mexico. They even were used to go to Japan. It was the type 9 that put spies into Canada, and the US. How ever type 7's also was sent to the US cost, but they were loaded to the hilt with fuel crowding the space, and it was only a few on a one way ticket there. They were sent to make up the numbers that lacked in the type 9's. This was the only reason. One type 9 brought in more kills than any type 7.

The advantage of the 7 against the 9 was it was cheaper to build, and crew by less. Was faster and can move better underwater. Because of these factors it was easy to set up a group of type 7 togeather into a wolf pack and patrol the shipping lanes in the middle of the Alantic hunting convoys, were the type 9s were independent. The 7 42 was on the draw plans, but all builds for this boat were cancled in favor of the 21. So in the game, they gave it to you anyway.

The type B models between the 7 and the 9 were going out in 1939 because the C models were coming in to replace the Bs. The B models are old pre-war boats as in before Sept 1939. Even the type IIA was a boat no longer in service. but the game gives it to you anyway..

-->Dosen't change that the GWX is a good mod, and I like this one best enough I have burned my copy to disc... Even if I had to make my own corrections, and this is still just a game..

[Oparator Stalker]

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

Thanks for the interesting information.

Does this game simulate compressed air usage? I just tested crash diving to 135m and blowing ballast and compressed air needle didn't even changed it's position. :maple2: I'm confused.

It verys between the mods. Some feel the boat would rise less even with blowing the ballest for some reason. Some feel she should hit the deck, some feel blowing air is pointless because it take your oxegen. I think it is because they do not understand the mechnics of what your blowing and the water base.

Items float better in salt water than fresh water. Something to do with the salt particles that make the salt in the water. When you dive you are sinking the sub on pourpose, but in a controlled manner. You want a water intake with enough ammount to exceed or meet the weight of what your sinking so it can go under. once your under the dive planes take it from there. Adding in water or pumping it out will also control the way it gose up or down. In short, you should be able to still sink standing still and serface the same way.

When you blow the ballest, what your doing is useing air pressuer to force the water out of the sea water tanks in forced massed amounts, that make the boat sink. It seems everyone forgets your in a steel bubble. So when enough water gets out, you are going up.

In the default game, this system seems to work normal to me, well at lest how I would expect this.. I did notice in the GWX mod it seem like it dose nothing. I used it to get my type 9 up faster and all it did was make a bunch of noise. and still raised no quicker.. It was like a waste of my time to even do...

Some times I think they get confused between WWI-boats which are more boat and less U, and WWII U-boats which were more U and less boat...

[Oparator Stalker]

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

Does this game simulate compressed air usage? I just tested crash diving to 135m and blowing ballast and compressed air needle didn't even changed it's position. :maple2: I'm confused.

Self-fix: it's actually uses compressed air and *very* slowly regenerate while using diesel. But the hint is you need to use E button (blow ballast) nultuply times to make surfacing faster. There is nowhere written in manual about spamming E.

Also what impact morale does to the crew?

I know all the short cut keys.. A map of them should be in your directory folder for SH3.

I do not know, I modded all that. I nevre saw anywere the crew committing mutany agains the captain because he wants to sink a destroyer. That is a default thing too.. So for me. My crew gets the job done..

[Oparator Stalker]

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

Originally posted by warcatt00:

I know all the short cut keys.. A map of them should be in your directory folder for SH3.

You misunderstood a bit. Emphasis isn't on «E for blow ballast», it's about spamming E button to make air compressing need move and surfacing faster. Usually you expect to use a button only once. That's not the case with blowing ballast. Apologies for my bad English.

I hear you, you do, in the default game you hit it once and she gose up fast. Hit it one more time she gose up faster.

Just not in the mods... In the mods, yeah you go to spam it. lol, until key stuck program gets involked...

[Oparator Stalker]

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

Maybe you are right. I tested surfacing from 150m, and it made 2 steps. First blowing surfaced to about 100m, second blowing fully surfaced me and I used 5 out of 6 bars all-toghether.

yeah, see. I do not know why mods make it not work like this or leave it alone and quit changing the settings.. . But it is what it is... How ever I am sure you do not have to spam the valve to get it to do its job..

[Pomf666]

In my experience with over 1,500 hours between vanilla, GWX, and LSH SH3, the best progression is 7B, 7C as soon as you can get it (mostly on account it has more con tower choices), then wait until the 7/42 is available (skip the 7/41). They are mostly the same but with 1 very important difference, the 7C/42 has TWO extra external torpedo reloads compared to the 7C/41, and you are unlikely to be able to afford both before war end, so just wait until the 7C/42 comes out.

The Type IX is actually very viable in-game, and has a ton more torpedoes than any Type VII. The main problems are it is a lot slower underwater and dives a lot slower. Also if you want to be historically accurate, the missions will be a lot longer and more boring as you will be sent to US East Coast, gulf area, and Caribbean most of the time. And while you will fine ships, there won't be many convoys which offsets your advantage of having so many extra torpedoes.
However, if you don't care about being historically accurate (and the game does not force you to really follow the patrols grids it gives you). A good use of the Type IX would to just take it up around the AL + AM area as well as SW of Ireland to hunt for convoys.

[Oparator Stalker]

Originally posted by Pomf:

In my experience with over 1,500 hours between vanilla, GWX, and LSH SH3, the best progression is 7B, 7C as soon as you can get it (mostly on account it has more con tower choices), then wait until the 7/42 is available (skip the 7/41). They are mostly the same but with 1 very important difference, the 7C/42 has TWO extra external torpedo reloads compared to the 7C/41, and you are unlikely to be able to afford both before war end, so just wait until the 7C/42 comes out.

The Type IX is actually very viable in-game, and has a ton more torpedoes than any Type VII. The main problems are it is a lot slower underwater and dives a lot slower. Also if you want to be historically accurate, the missions will be a lot longer and more boring as you will be sent to US East Coast, gulf area, and Caribbean most of the time. And while you will fine ships, there won't be many convoys which offsets your advantage of having so many extra torpedoes.
However, if you don't care about being historically accurate (and the game does not force you to really follow the patrols grids it gives you). A good use of the Type IX would to just take it up around the AL + AM area as well as SW of Ireland to hunt for convoys.

Yes of course, in the MOD.. My ref is from real life...

[Discordia]

Originally posted by Hōraisan Kaguya:

About VII-B and -C, it says that diving is 30 vs 27 sec. It's probably from the surface to the periscope depth, because the deeper you go the bigger will be difference in time.

I'm not sure about precise timing, because mods change PD for each sub, so actual values in the game could be different.

Historicaly, the diving time reffers to the time lag between the comand being given and the time the water closes over the stern of the boat, not getting to periscope depth.