Is this game worth 60 bucks

[wk37781]

Is this game worth 60 whopping bucks??

[fakemon64]

yup

[Agent Orion]

100% yes! I bought Shock Force 2 on its steam release with all DLC because it looked like EXACTLY the game I had been looking for (not knowing anything about the CM series before). It quickly skyrocketed to my favorite hardcore mil-sim type game of all time. Black Sea is amazing so far (13 hours in) and a lot more lethal! I usually wait for sales, but the Combat Mission games are insta-buys for me.

[starbuck310]

Yup

[mooreshawnm]

I had these from the BF site. The quality hours possible are many.

Yes

[Astrospud]

Don't judge the value of this game by the graphics.
It's deep tactical simulation has no equal.
While the price is within the AAA range, as far as simulations go, it's up there.

Yes

[Mordante69]

TO&E

FORMATIONS
----------------

United States

Infantry Battalion
Infantry Battalion Task Force
Stryker Infantry Battalion
Stryker Infantry Battalion Task Force
Combined Arms Battalion
Combined Arms Battalion Task Force
Cavalry Squadron
Cavalry Squadron (Armored)
Cavalry Squadron (Stryker)
Brigade Engineer Battalion
Brigade Engineer Battalion (Armored)
Brigade Engineer Battalion (Stryker)
Antiarmor Company
LRS Platoon
MANPADS Platoon
LNO Advisor Section
Supply Section
COLT Section
Air Controller Section

Russia

Tank Battalion (x31 tanks)
Tank Battalion (x41 tanks)
Tank Battalion Tactical Group (BMP)
Tank Battalion Tactical Group (BTR)
Tank Battalion Tactical Group (MTLB)
Motor Rifle Battalion (BMP)
Motor Rifle Battalion (BTR)
Motor Rifle Battalion (MTLB)
Battalion Tactical Group (BMP)
Battalion Tactical Group (BTR)
Battalion Tactical Group (MTLB)
Reconnaissance Battalion (New)
Reconnaissance Battalion (Old)
Antitank Battalion
Sapper Company
Air Defense Artillery Battery
Air Defense Missile Battery
Sniper Platoon
Supply Section
Forward Observer Section
Air Controller Section

Ukraine

Tank Battalion (x31 tanks)
Tank Battalion (x40 tanks)
Tank Battalion Tactical Group (BMP)
Tank Battalion Tactical Group (BTR)
Mech Infantry Battalion (BMP)
Mech Infantry Battalion (BTR)
Battalion Tactical Group (BMP)
Battalion Tactical Group (BTR)
Mountain Infantry Battalion
Antitank Battalion
Reconnaissance Battalion
Reconnaissance Company
Sapper Company
Sniper Company
ATGM Battery
Air Defense Battery
MANPADS Battery
Supply Section
Forward Observer Section
Air Controller Section


VEHICLES/ARMOR
---------------------

United States

M1A2 SEPv2 Abrams (APS)
M1A2 SEPv2 Abrams (ERA)
M2A3 Bradley (APS)
M2A3 Bradley (ERA)
M3A3 Bradley (APS)
M3A3 Bradley (ERA)
M7A3 Bradley (APS)
M7A3 Bradley (ERA)
M1126 Stryker
M1127 Stryker
M1128 Stryker
M1129 Stryker
M1130 Stryker
M1131 Stryker
M1132 Stryker
M1134 Stryker
M1064A3
M1200 Armored Knight
LMTV
M1151A1 Humvee
M1151A1 Humvee (Recon)
M1152A1 Humvee
M1167 Humvee

Russia

T-72B3
T-72B3 (APS)
T-90A
T-90AM
T-90AM (APS)
BMP-2
BMP-2K
BMP-2M
BMP-3
BMP-3K
BMP-3M
BMP-3M (Arena)
BMP-3M (ERA)
BMP-3M (Shtora)
BRM-1K
BRM-3K
BTR-80 (1V152)
BTR-80A
BTR-80AK
BTR-82
BTR-82A
2K22M-Tunguska\
MT-LBM
MT-LBM-6MA
MT-LBM-6MB
MT-LBu 1V14 "Mashina" KSAUO
PRP-4M
2S24
9K35 Strela-10M3
9P149-Shturm-S
9P157-2-Khrizantema-S
BRDM-2
BRDM-2 (AT-5B)
BRDM-2M
BRDM-2M (AT-5B)
Tigr
UAZ 469
Ural 4320

Ukraine

BM Oplot
BM Bulat
T-64BV
BMP-2
BMP-2K
BTR-4E
BTR-70
BTR-70K
MT-LBM
MT-LBu 1V14 "Mashina" KSAUO
PRP-4M
9K35 Strela-10M3
9P149-Shturm-S
BRDM-2
BRDM-2 (AT-5B)
BRM-1K
UAZ 469
Ural 4320


ON MAP MORTARS/GUNS
-----------------------------

United States

Mk.19
60mm M224A1
81mm M252A1
120mm M120
M136 AT4 CS
FGM-148 Javelin
TOW ITAS M41
FIM-92 Stinger

Russia

AGS-17
AGS-30
82mm 2B11 Sani
120mm 2B14 Podnos
RPG-26
RPG-7V2
RPO-M Shmel
AT-4C
AT-7
AT-13
AT-14
Igla SA-18
Igla-S SA-24

Ukraine

AGS-17
82mm 2B11 Sani
120mm 2B14 Podnos
RPG-22
RPG-26
RPG-7V1
RPO-A Shmel
AT-4C
AT-7
Igla SA-18
100mm MT-12 Rapira
100mm MT-12K Rapira


SMALL ARMS
------------------


United States

M4A1
M4A1 w/ ACOG
M4A1 w/ M320A1 grenade launcher
M4A1 w/ grenade launcher + ACOG
M4A1 w/ thermal sight
M249 PIP
M240L
M2A1 .50cal
Precision Sniper Rifle (.300)
Precision Sniper Rifle (.338)
Precision Sniper Rifle (7.62)
M107A1
M110
M110 CSASS
M25 CDTE
M9A1

Russia

AK-74M
AK-74M w/ GP-30 grenade launcher
AKS-74U
PKP
PKM
SVD
Makarov PM

Ukraine

AK-74
AK-74 w/ GP-25 grenade launcher
AKS-74
AKS-74U
RPK-74
PKM
SVD
Makarov PM


AIR SUPPORT
----------------

United States

AH-64D Apache Longbow
AH-64E Apache Guardian
F-15E Strike Eagle
F-16CJ Fighting Falcon
MQ-1C Grey Eagle
RQ-11B Raven
RQ-7B Shadow

Russia

Ka-52 Alligator
Mi-24PN Hind
Mi-28N Havoc
Su-24M2 Fencer-D
Su-25SM Frogfoot
Su-34 Fullback
Orlan-10
Yakovlev Pchela-1T
ZALA 421-08

Ukraine

M-24P Hind
M-24PM Hind
Su-24M Fencer-D
Su-25 Frogfoot



OFF MAP ARTILLERY
-----------------------
United States

60mm M224A1 Mortar
81mm M252A1 Mortar
120mm M120 Mortar
120mm M1064A3 SP Mortar
155mm M109A7 Paladin SP Howitzer
105mm M119A3 Howitzer
155mm M777A2 Howitzer

Russia

82mm 2B14 Podnos Mortar
82mm 2S24 SP Mortar
120mm 2B11 Sani Mortar
152mm 2A65 Msta-B Howitzer
122mm 2S1 Gvozdika SP Howitzer
152mm 2S19 Msta-S SP Howitzer
152mm 2S19M1 Msta-S SP Howitzer
152mm 2S19M2 Msta-S SP Howitzer
122mm 2S34 Chosta SP Howitzer
152mm 2S3M1 Akatsiya SP Howitzer
152mm 2S3M2 Akatsiya SP Howitzer
203mm 2S7M Mialka SP Gun
100mm MT-12 Rapira Gun

Ukraine

82mm 2B14 Podnos Mortar
120mm 2B11 Sani Mortar
152mm 2A65 Msta-B Howitzer
122mm 2S1 Gvozdika SP Howitzer
152mm 2S19 Msta-S SP Howitzer
152mm 2S3M1 Akatsiya SP Howitzer
203mm 2S7M Mialka SP Gun
100mm MT-12 Rapira Gun

[wk37781]

cool sounds detailed. thanks

[Mordante69]

It's very detailed. The game also comes with what is probably the best map editor in wargaming. It's really easy to use and you could technically make a functioning map in under ten minutes, if you just wanted to set up your forces attacking a defended position. Along with the powerful editor there's also a quick battle generator. So between what comes with the game, the editor, the QB generator and user made content, there's virtually limitless entertainment to be had.

I have all the titles in this series and they are my go to for WWII and Modern tactical gaming.

At the risk of boring you I will re-post some things I said to someone else in another thread to give you an idea of the detail in these games.

[Mordante69]

"To give you an idea how deep the game is, when a tank is hit by a round you can check on the systems tab and see what functions were damaged if any. Or see if any crew were injured. A round could partially penetrate and might knock out the radio, or damage the optics, kill the driver, or pass clean through. Regardless of penetration or not, there will be a hit decal on the outside of the tank showing either a hole, a scorch mark, or ricochet gouge where the round hit. If it is penetrated it could explode upon contact, or be knocked out and smolder for a few minutes before catching fire. A few turns later it might blow from the munitions cooking off. That's only a few examples of why we love it."

[Mordante69]

"Here's another cool detail for you. If you have a squad lead by Sgt Jones who has +1 leadership, and he is wounded/killed, he will be replaced by the next highest rank (Ex: Pvt Smith with -2 leadership). Squads can be split into (up to) three teams, each with a name/rank/leadership bonus. Makes for a lot of great role playing moments. At the end of the scenario you can check and see how many kills each team/vehicle got during the battle."

[Mordante69]

"Crew members in tanks/IFVs will also switch positions if someone is killed/incapacitated. So if the gunner is killed in a Panther, the commander or loader will swap to that position when the time comes to shoot. You will see it in the UI panel where it shows the weapon each crewman has. The commander will go from having a Walther to a tank round.

So picture this: Your Panther is hit on the front facing hull by a shot from a Firefly. The shell ricochets off. You check the damage tab and see that the coax machine gun now has a yellow circle denoting it was lightly damaged from shell splinters, other than that you're good. Before your panzer can return fire, it's hit again. This time the shell penetrates but passes through the tank and explodes a 100 yards to the rear. You check the UI again and find the radio was knocked out, the radio operator was killed, the optics are lightly damaged, and the loader was heavily wounded. Lucky the commander has a +1 rating, and the crew experience is Crack, so they don't bail out. You (or the Tac AI depending on the situation) orders the Panther to target the Firefly. The Commander jumps into the loader position, loads the shell, and fires. The round whistles through the air but misses because of the damaged optics. The Firefly panics, and as it tries to back into a safer position, your second round hits home and penetrates just below the turret ring. There's an explosion, the tanks catches fire, and you notice only one man pops out of the Allied tank, the rest die inside.

That's just one potential situation in a battle of hundreds of men and vehicles. But I've seen s** like shells ricochet off tanks and explode near infantry, killing them. Dudes in mid-throw drop live grenades among comrades after being shot, killing or wounding those men. Knocked out tanks cook off and wound infantry who were too close when it happened. Men picking up bazookas or panzershrecks off fallen comrades and using them. Passengers in a halftrack stand up and shoot at a lone German soldier running across a field. Bailed crews mowed down as they fled their knocked out tanks. I've even seen a grenade sail over a hump in a ditch line, from an enemy who had dropped out of line of sight and was trying to get a kill without exposing himself to fire. It goes on and on.

It's deep, man."

[Mordante69]

"With WEGO play, when you encounter something cool, you'll be able to re-watch that moment over and over from any angle/height you want until you are ready to move on. And with CM games there are hundreds of such moments that you will actually talk about later like they really happened.

If it grabs you, the money to time played ratio is bar-none one of, if not the best in all of wargaming. "

[pinwolf]

Compare it with tabletop miniatures wargaming systems like Flames of War and Force on Force. How much would you have to pay to get the same content?
How much time to paint it all? How much time to calculate just one game turn? How much space to play and also to just store it away?

[Rabble]

How's the campaign? any carry over units feature?

[Mordante69]

Yes. You can have campaigns with core units that travel from scenario to scenario.