First P2W souls-like?

[Facewound]

The Lords of the Fallen Deluxe Edition includes:

GAME - A vast world awaits in the all-new, dark fantasy action-RPG
DARK CRUSADER STARTING CLASS* - set forth upon your epic journey equipped as one of the renowned Dark Crusaders, fabled for their faith and ferocity
DARK CRUSADER ARMOUR & WEAPON SET* - brandish the Dark Crusaders’ iconic ensemble, including the devastating Isaac's Longsword, Holy Light explosives, full armour set, and Paladin's Pendant

P.S. Technically first P2W souls game is Demon Souls Remake

[Cat]

You forgot the important part.

*Immediate access granted to items that otherwise can be found late game in all versions of title

So not really pay to win as much as pay to play early. Tons of games do this.

[Shinkiro]

Originally posted by Sunricer:

You forgot the important part.

Of course they did, these people always miss out the part that refutes them.

[Facewound]

Originally posted by Sunricer:

You forgot the important part.

*Immediate access granted to items that otherwise can be found late game in all versions of title

So not really pay to win as much as pay to play early. Tons of games do this.

You forgot the important part.

Late access != equality

I.e. in stock market trading you'll get annihilated by regulators if you do something like that. But in gaming - welp, yeah, Stockholm syndrome victims will defend such practices while getting bend over by devs.

[Cat]

Nowhere in your post was this about equality, if you want to argue that then yeah, it's not equal, but it's not pay to win. I'm not here to defend the decision to allow early access to classes, but it's not like it's unobtainable to anyone who's not paying extra. It's just not accessed from the start. Remnant 2 did this exact same thing and it has pretty much no impact on the game at all.

[Facewound]

Originally posted by Sunricer:

Nowhere in your post was this about equality, if you want to argue that then yeah, it's not equal, but it's not pay to win. I'm not here to defend the decision to allow early access to classes, but it's not like it's unobtainable to anyone who's not paying extra. It's just not accessed from the start. Remnant 2 did this exact same thing and it has pretty much no impact on the game at all.

Lol P2W is literally about imbalance in equality between credit card gamers vs players who don't pay for gems or any other kind of "digital deluxe early access (up to 7 days)". Your point is similar to "but you can get V-bucks in yet another Clash of Clans clone duh thus its not P2W". Do you even know at what point in the game new class is aquired to compare the situation to Remnant 2?

Originally posted by turbogum:

Originally posted by Sunricer:

Nowhere in your post was this about equality, if you want to argue that then yeah, it's not equal, but it's not pay to win. I'm not here to defend the decision to allow early access to classes, but it's not like it's unobtainable to anyone who's not paying extra. It's just not accessed from the start. Remnant 2 did this exact same thing and it has pretty much no impact on the game at all.

Furthermore, it's a primarily PvE game that can be played all the way through offline, aside from the covenant related stuff. What exaclty are you "winning" by getting one unlockable class earlier?

That'd be like arguing that the original release of Dark Souls 2 was pay to win, because you could get some DLC weapons and keys from a chest at the start of the game.

Nice stretch my guy. These weapons were a part of DLC promotions, and nowhere near OP. These are basically pre-order skins. I don't remember FS locking Knight class behind, for example, Drangleic castle. And, for smart pants, lets repeat together:
Pre-order skins != locking a playable class behind progression, "but for those sweet 10$ you can play it right away!"

[VGAHayden]

I highly doubt a class's Starting Gear is going to be unbalanced.

[Assassinfaiter]

Pre-ordering Demon's Souls Remake also gave you some initial supplies and additional unique weapons and armor. The game itself didn't suffer from this in terms of balance. This is just an optional bonus, that can be ignored. The additional starting class in Lords of The Fallen is a good bonus, that is only needed to increase the replayability of the game. I don't think you need to worry about this aspect of the game. I just pre-ordered Deluxe Edition and I'm not worried about it

I feel that Lords of The Fallen will be a very good game, but first of all, I hope that the game will be well optimized!

[Mazzle Dazzle]

Remnant 2 had the same kind of thing, it also had the same thing with unlocking classes. Once you unlock them they are unlocked for good. It actually worked really well. The gunslinger class wasn't even worth it imo so its not even like it did anything special.

[NEGRO LANGA]

Originally posted by Facewound:

The Lords of the Fallen Deluxe Edition includes:

GAME - A vast world awaits in the all-new, dark fantasy action-RPG
DARK CRUSADER STARTING CLASS* - set forth upon your epic journey equipped as one of the renowned Dark Crusaders, fabled for their faith and ferocity
DARK CRUSADER ARMOUR & WEAPON SET* - brandish the Dark Crusaders’ iconic ensemble, including the devastating Isaac's Longsword, Holy Light explosives, full armour set, and Paladin's Pendant

P.S. Technically first P2W souls game is Demon Souls Remake

the first P2W souls game was Dark Souls 2 and its infamous black armor edtion

[Facewound]

Originally posted by Assassinfaiter:

Pre-ordering Demon's Souls Remake also gave you some initial supplies and additional unique weapons and armor. The game itself didn't suffer from this in terms of balance. This is just an optional bonus, that can be ignored. The additional starting class in Lords of The Fallen is a good bonus, that is only needed to increase the replayability of the game. I don't think you need to worry about this aspect of the game.

I feel that Lords of The Fallen will be a very good game, but first of all, I hope that the game will be well optimized!

Fore reference:
https://youtu.be/MWv86Z9dLcI?si=P2AccUEbzczwFi91
https://youtu.be/bCmtMf5hc-E?si=8KxjTTBrImIdDiAE

Ring swap glitch is kinda gamebreaking though

Originally posted by turbogum:

Originally posted by Facewound:

Nice stretch my guy.

Could say the same.

Originally posted by Facewound:

These weapons were a part of DLC promotions, and nowhere near OP.

Yeah and the early unlock of Crusader class is a part of pre-order promotion, and we have no clue if he's even remotely OP.

Quick Edit: actually no, not even pre-order promotion, you will be able to upgrade your copy to the deluxe edition post release if you're so upset about having to unlock a single extra class.

Originally posted by Facewound:

These are basically pre-order skins.

Yeah, "skins" in the form of functional weapons with different stats that you could get within the first 2 minutes of the game.

Originally posted by Facewound:

I don't remember FS locking Knight class behind, for example, Drangleic castle.

Yeah, but I do remember them not giving you a set of free weapons and shields at the start of the game, unless you had the DLC bonus.

Besides, what's the issue with the Crusader class being unlockable? You do realize that there's an unlockable class for each one of the three endings, not just this one, right?

Originally posted by Facewound:

And, for smart pants, lets repeat together:
Pre-order skins != locking a playable class behind progression, "but for those sweet 10$ you can play it right away!"

So you're basically ass mad that some other people can check out a single unlockable class early? And it somehow makes it P2W (you still haven't elaborated on how is it P2W)?

This is such a random and ridiculous thing to get upset over.

Not even remotely mad lol what are you talking about
Basically this back and forth comes down to whether or not DC is balanced or not
And, disparaging player's effort of completing the game by giving one of the unlockable classes for Deluxe upgrade is just plain stupid. EA levels of not giving a single heck about the product

[Assassinfaiter]

Originally posted by Facewound:

Originally posted by Assassinfaiter:

Fore reference:
https://youtu.be/MWv86Z9dLcI?si=P2AccUEbzczwFi91
https://youtu.be/bCmtMf5hc-E?si=8KxjTTBrImIdDiAE

Ring swap glitch is kinda gamebreaking though

I never understood why it would be interesting to break a single-player game, in which there are no problems with achieving any progress and obtaining resources. Demon's Souls is a fairly short game with enjoyable gameplay. People do glitches in these types of games for various speedruns. For the average player, who wants to enjoy the game, this approach can ruin the gaming experience. Games, like Dark Souls, are not MMO-RPGs with an in-game store. All progress in such games is achieved relatively quickly!

In general, in most cases I choose the Deprived class in Dark Souls (or Wretch in Elden Ring) and similar games. This makes the first hours of the game more exciting and interesting, since you have to get initial equipment and build your own build. Lords of the Fallen will feature a similar hardcore class: Condemned. And I will most likely start playing for this class!

[Facewound]

Originally posted by Assassinfaiter:

Originally posted by Facewound:

Fore reference:
https://youtu.be/MWv86Z9dLcI?si=P2AccUEbzczwFi91
https://youtu.be/bCmtMf5hc-E?si=8KxjTTBrImIdDiAE

Ring swap glitch is kinda gamebreaking though

I never understood why it would be interesting to break a single-player game, in which there are no problems with achieving any progress and obtaining resources. Demon's Souls is a fairly short game with enjoyable gameplay. People do glitches in these types of games for various speedruns. For the average player, who wants to enjoy the game, this approach can ruin the gaming experience. Games, like Dark Souls, are not MMO-RPGs with an in-game store. All progress in such games is achieved relatively quickly!

In general, in most cases I choose the Deprived class in Dark Souls (or Wretch in Elden Ring) and similar games. This makes the first hours of the game more exciting and interesting, since you have to get initial equipment and build your own build. Lords of the Fallen will feature a similar hardcore class: Condemned. And I will most likely start playing for this class!

I agree with you, but PvP exists in these games, so there will always be sweatlords who will do anything to gain some kind of advantage over other players. And the funny thing is that they think these shenanigans are legit PvP skills

Originally posted by Senki:

Originally posted by VGAHayden:

I highly doubt a class's Starting Gear is going to be unbalanced.

The most OP weapon in DS3 is on a starting class so I wouldn't rule it out either.

These games don't function like typical rpgs where you throw starting items in the trash 5 minutes into the game. You can use them until the very end if you upgrade

True

[Rail]

if you were a seasoned player you would know how redundant a starter class in a soul like really is, if you additionally wouldn't have your ego over logic you would give us all a hug and close the topic.

[ColonelBaker]

It's not P2W but it is annoying. Remnant 2 did the same thing with the Gunsligner, which was a very good and fun class. It was annoying to unlock it later in the game too .

[Ronin Gamer]

Do I like it as an edition? No, think it's a waste of money. More so that it's 70 bucks and I don't want to pay that unless something of genuine value is added. An early class unlock isn't that, since I can get it with the 60 version just fine.
I'm not going to sit here and whine about it. I'll lament some people are going to continue to push the 70 dollar ******** angle that companies are starting to use to milk us more, but what's in there doesn't matter to me personally and the class is unlocked by beating the game once, not exactly something that is all that unheard of. Who cares.

Too many people also have WAAAY to strong a desire for power/meta gaming in ******* everything and it's so bizarre. Even with a character that starts with a nicer set up, you've beaten the game once already and proven yourself, so what does it matter? Wouldn't surprise me if you could also find that equipment in game, the unlock just gives you the option to start as one.

If people actually want that over putting themselves to the test, then they are free to waste an extra 10 bucks I guess. I'll happily earn it personally.