Yet another "Dark Souls" like game with forced PvP for Co op

[SlappedByAFish]

Mild shock

[Akasha]

Publicado originalmente por Senki:

yep

it's probably a forever curse that soulslike games will never have good co-op (unless you count remnant I guess)

That being said I don't care that much since I like playing them solo more anyway

It's the same cycle as always, eventually the modders will role up their sleeves and breathe some extra life into the game with a randomizer mod of sorts and of course a coop mod except this time the game already has seamless and tethered coop so it will be to just remove invasions. It will just be QoL mod because we do have an item to turn off PvP anyway for a period of time.

[Akasha]

Publicado originalmente por Lofi of Future Garage:

Publicado originalmente por Akasha:

It's the same cycle as always, eventually the modders will role up their sleeves and breathe some extra life into the game with a randomizer mod of sorts and of course a coop mod except this time the game already has seamless and tethered coop so it will be to just remove invasions. It will just be QoL mod because we do have an item to turn off PvP anyway for a period of time.

and hopefully those people will be banned for using the mods just like they are in dark souls. I also hope it shows up as a vac ban as well. yall sit here and complain about pvpers hacking but oddly enough its perfectly fine when it fits yalls needs lol.

If we were speaking in Sith absolutes, sure, a cheater is a cheater and bans for everyone. Outside of that, this is an argument in bad faith, you are comparing a cheater who cheated to experience their game how they want to play it to a cheater who cheats to directly, key word directly, influence the gameplay of others in a negative way. Both are cheaters yet both are drastically not the same.

I just find it weird when people care how a person is playing their own game in their privacy.

[Mazzle Dazzle]

I disliked the pve and pvp in Elden Ring more than any dark souls game. Few reasons for this, the horse dismounting, the frequent disconnects from my co op partners, the blue phantom spawns failing consistently, the fact that enemy spawns ignored invaders leading to camping mechanics, the inability to use summons in co op, that invaders that went out of the way to gank noobs could have significantly more skills and estus flask than the host, and all of this combined with the fact that enemies scale against you made the game significantly harder in co op without mods. I know people say it was easier but in my experience it made the mobs more unpredictable and the whole game significantly harder even without invaders.
IMO if the game works properly and its a proper co op invasion system that works and doesn't have constant lag and disconnects and the bad spirits don't just completely ignore the invaders, then I think it would be fun to do. If it's as unbalanced and buggy as Elden ring, I'll be refunding or waiting for a mod depending on the lay of the land and game performance at the time of release.

[Shinkiro]

Publicado originalmente por Mazzle Dazzle:

and all of this combined with the fact that enemies scale against you made the game significantly harder in co op without mods. I know people say it was easier but in my experience it made the mobs more unpredictable and the whole game significantly harder even without invaders.

People say it because its mathematically true. Im not dismissing your experience here but the vanilla ER scaling added at best 50% of an additional half decent player worth of scaling, so 2 people is already giving you a 50%ish advantage over solo. The AI is fairly predictable and can be abused and baited and trivialised and follows patterns based on your positioning. For example having one person just guarding with a shield while the 2nd gets to attack from behind without any risk isnt something you can do alone and trivialises anything short of bosses. But bosses suffer the same problem in that they have priorities to targetting and you can abuse as a team. The Ai cannot compensate for additional players well, and really this applies to ALL games because AI isnt advanced enough and its just a load of scripting for situations. The best way to beat a human player is another human player.

Publicado originalmente por Mazzle Dazzle:

IMO if the game works properly and its a proper co op invasion system

The system design is perfectly good as is, If you mean like dedicated servers to compensate for networking issues then they cost money to run and maintain them and eventually they'll get turned off, p2p doesnt have this problem really and you can effectively run a p2p system forever for next to nothing in comparison.

[Mazzle Dazzle]

Publicado originalmente por Shinkiro:

Publicado originalmente por Mazzle Dazzle:

and all of this combined with the fact that enemies scale against you made the game significantly harder in co op without mods. I know people say it was easier but in my experience it made the mobs more unpredictable and the whole game significantly harder even without invaders.

People say it because its mathematically true. Im not dismissing your experience here but the vanilla ER scaling added at best 50% of an additional half decent player worth of scaling, so 2 people is already giving you a 50%ish advantage over solo. The AI is fairly predictable and can be abused and baited and trivialised and follows patterns based on your positioning. For example having one person just guarding with a shield while the 2nd gets to attack from behind without any risk isnt something you can do alone and trivialises anything short of bosses. But bosses suffer the same problem in that they have priorities to targetting and you can abuse as a team. The Ai cannot compensate for additional players well, and really this applies to ALL games because AI isnt advanced enough and its just a load of scripting for situations. The best way to beat a human player is another human player.

Publicado originalmente por Mazzle Dazzle:

IMO if the game works properly and its a proper co op invasion system

The system design is perfectly good as is, If you mean like dedicated servers to compensate for networking issues then they cost money to run and maintain them and eventually they'll get turned off, p2p doesnt have this problem really and you can effectively run a p2p system forever for next to nothing in comparison.

I agree it can work, it just didn't in Elden ring. If it makes the game harder than solo, I won't play it and will refund. Simple as that. It actually did work in other titles without random disconnects, they didn't have the penalizing mount system, or summon system that trivialized much of the game. Forgoing those functions absolutely made the game harder. Helpers without scaling is better than helpers with scaling. Playing in Co op was obviously a harder experience. Not being able to use mounted combat made the game harder. Your reward for the harder experience was invasions and then you have to spend the next 20 minutes trying to connect again, just to get invaded again.
Edit: for the record, I like the variability that invasions bring, I like the tenseness that occured in dark souls when you had an invader come in. I liked being able to troll them with seeds of the fallen giant when they camped out. When playing in Co op, it became a mini boss that was actually intelligent. My problem was that in Elden Ring, you played an overall harder game in Co op and it had a significant number of disconnects that always kicked my brother who I tried to play with out of the game but only during invasions. Blue phantoms would come in, and instantly dc as well. The whole experience was significantly harder than me just riding around on horseback and summoning three wolves and healing them or random zombie swarms or whatever.

[Mijj]

This is the only souls like game with invasion when cooping what are you whining about ?

[Lunatix]

Comparing cheaters with people that want to avoid cheaters (because there will be you can be sure about that) and just enjoy the game that they bought, this is another level of IQ here.

[TsampaD]

now ok..this is not good with pvp, already this game will have a difficulty, i'm afraid many people will get annoyed with this

[Za'Muro]

good

[Mazzle Dazzle]

Yea from what I've heard, you can rez your co op partner and troll the invaders hardcore by changing realms, the host also gets multiple lives. If you ever played deathloop, you'd have to really really suck to die twice under those conditions.

[stinkytoenails1]

Publicado originalmente por pathtracer:

Publicado originalmente por Semerketh:

Forced PvP ? What's mean of that ?

it means that if you're playing in co-op, the game can force PvP on you in the form of other players coming into your world to kill you, with you having no choice in the matter. it's a terrible mechanic copied from the fromsoftware souls games, I was really hoping hexworks would be more reasonable

its only in certain areas so u could just avoid those areas if u dont want pvp

[pathtracer]

Publicado originalmente por stinkytoenails1:

Publicado originalmente por pathtracer:

it means that if you're playing in co-op, the game can force PvP on you in the form of other players coming into your world to kill you, with you having no choice in the matter. it's a terrible mechanic copied from the fromsoftware souls games, I was really hoping hexworks would be more reasonable

its only in certain areas so u could just avoid those areas if u dont want pvp

not good enough, there should be a menu option to disable it entirely. unfortunately they've said there is no such option, but there IS a vendor who sells an item that blocks invasions temporarily. if they're limited or super expensive, then worst case I could just edit the number of them in my inv.

[Shinkiro]

Publicado originalmente por pathtracer:

not good enough, there should be a menu option to disable it entirely. unfortunately they've said there is no such option, but there IS a vendor who sells an item that blocks invasions temporarily. if they're limited or super expensive, then worst case I could just edit the number of them in my inv.

No there shouldn't be, if you dont want invasions then dont opt into them or play a game that doesnt have them as a feature if you're so insecure about some optional pvp. The game/genre isn't made for your preferences. Resorting to cheating because you can't have your way is exactly why you people shouldn't be listened too at all and why these games should be online only.

[Victozor]

Publicado originalmente por Shinkiro:

Publicado originalmente por pathtracer:

not good enough, there should be a menu option to disable it entirely. unfortunately they've said there is no such option, but there IS a vendor who sells an item that blocks invasions temporarily. if they're limited or super expensive, then worst case I could just edit the number of them in my inv.

No there shouldn't be, if you dont want invasions then dont opt into them or play a game that doesnt have them as a feature if you're so insecure about some optional pvp. The game/genre isn't made for your preferences. Resorting to cheating because you can't have your way is exactly why you people shouldn't be listened too at all and why these games should be online only.

Low IQ moment.

[Shinkiro]

Publicado originalmente por Victozor:

Low IQ moment.

Yes your comment is. I dont expect anything better from people here though. Dont like a mechanic dont interact with it or opt into it, its not hard to understand, except for souls-like whiners it seems.