Cross bows really need re-working.

[Turd Cutter]

Just did a respec and tried it out. Out of all the builds this one is broken. With infinite ammo and dual rings, this is the most broken build I have seen thus far.

[Turd Cutter]

Escrito originalmente por Danny_usmc:

Escrito originalmente por Xero:

I get it, you were unable to beat Elden Ring, and now that you can just breeze through LOTF, you don't want the ability to get carried taken away from you. I mean, why else would you think crossbows getting 1k damage or more per hit is balanced when they can do everything from range, meanwhile that melee guy has to be in melee range and needs to know when to dodge attacks if he want to not eat ♥♥♥♥.

yeah I got one shotted in PVP by a crossbow build its absurdly OP even more so than Radiance or Inferno. Didnt even notice, the invader sniped me from over 100 meters away with a crossbow one hit done. It has the furthest range in the game and travels so fast you have no chance dodging it beyond luck. This was last night after update so no it wasnt patched. It should probably be a 2 hit kill not 1 hit.

I've tried them all. I'm not saying radiance doesn't need balancing in pvp. But I've tried them all, and the Xbow with double dmg rings with infinite ammo melts players way faster than my 750 attack power radiance build.

[Fishypixels]

Escrito originalmente por Xero:

Escrito originalmente por TTV_exSkye:

You're either greatly-exaggerating, or you don't know much about builds in LOTF2.

Having a solid TTK doesn't mean you're cheesing.
Crossbows in NG+3 are well-balanced, and far from the damage output/TTK of MANY cheese builds that exist in the game.

As for my "NG+4 Lightreaper in 2m 50s" kill, I wasn't hard-capped in any stat category and only soft-capped at 75 in one of them. My build is as far from a cheese build as you can get, and there are plenty of builds out there that have way, way, way faster TTK and way, way higher damage outputs.

I get it, you were unable to beat Elden Ring, and now that you can just breeze through LOTF, you don't want the ability to get carried taken away from you. I mean, why else would you think crossbows getting 1k damage or more per hit is balanced when they can do everything from range, meanwhile that melee guy has to be in melee range and needs to know when to dodge attacks if he want to not eat ♥♥♥♥.

A lot of small bosses dodge most of your crossbow bolts (lightreaper is a great example), so like a melee build, you have to let them attack and dodge until they are stuck in recovery. Thinking you can just sit back and snipe solo is maybe half the fights. Some big fat bosses are this way, but not all of them, and usually they force you to deal with their mechanics in some way.

One of the major reasons I love the build is that it can make up for ♥♥♥♥♥♥ networking in coop when I am not the host, where my melee attacks are whiffing point blank etc. The crossbow build feels a lot more predictable and dependable in that scenario, and completely changes some fights. Gotta have a lot of ammo pouches though (my personal preference is not to use the eye which converts withered health to ammo).

I'm really not sure why you advocate for crossbows getting nerfed. Are you wishing you could play a less effective crossbow build? Or you are wanting people that do like them to struggle more with it? I sense some elitist snobbery going on. I totally agree it needs to be nerfed for pvp tho.

[Scraps]

The Dark Souls trilogy, believe it or not, do have an easy-mode, and it's called Sorceries. Unless it's DS2, then it's Hexes. It's a bit more balanced in ER since enemy AI have more countermeasures to spellslinging over... Whatever the Hell Demon's Souls was, but, ah, Comet Azure and pre-nerf SoNaF. Could give less of a ♥♥♥♥ if you win with it cause at the end of the day, elitists will often move the goalpost. "Ah, you've beaten it without sorcery, but. hmhmhm, I see you did it with a katana. Tsk tsk. Run not valid."

I don't think it's super problematic, let people have one busted easy build to play, it's not hurting anyone.

[Livy]

In hindsight Harrower crossbow whouldn't have existed. But it does, and it's fun.

[Livy]

Escrito originalmente por Anarchy Flickerfoot:

The Dark Souls trilogy, believe it or not, do have an easy-mode, and it's called Sorceries. Unless it's DS2, then it's Hexes. It's a bit more balanced in ER since enemy AI have more countermeasures to spellslinging over... Whatever the Hell Demon's Souls was, but, ah, Comet Azure and pre-nerf SoNaF. Could give less of a ♥♥♥♥ if you win with it cause at the end of the day, elitists will often move the goalpost. "Ah, you've beaten it without sorcery, but. hmhmhm, I see you did it with a katana. Tsk tsk. Run not valid."

I don't think it's super problematic, let people have one busted easy build to play, it's not hurting anyone.

Though in DS3 starting the game off as a caster really sucks until like the 4/5 last part of the base game and ng+. Damage is too low and animations take too long for anything to feel good before that.

[Xero]

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

I'm really not sure why you advocate for crossbows getting nerfed. Are you wishing you could play a less effective crossbow build? Or you are wanting people that do like them to struggle more with it? I sense some elitist snobbery going on. I totally agree it needs to be nerfed for pvp tho.

Because crossbows are overperforming... When the options are buffing literally everything else, or nerf crossbows, nerfing crossbows is the better option.

[Fishypixels]

Escrito originalmente por Xero:

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

I'm really not sure why you advocate for crossbows getting nerfed. Are you wishing you could play a less effective crossbow build? Or you are wanting people that do like them to struggle more with it? I sense some elitist snobbery going on. I totally agree it needs to be nerfed for pvp tho.

Because crossbows are overperforming... When the options are buffing literally everything else, or nerf crossbows, nerfing crossbows is the better option.

What is the problem with crossbows (1 crossbow) overperforming, if we are just talking PVE? Is it making the game less fun? Are people getting bored because nothing else is as powerful? Are they completing the game too quickly? The build only becomes "OP" after multiple playthroughs (only 2 gems per run, 1 ring per run) and honestly seems like a nice reward after collecting everything. Your first run will have to be more balanced between ranged and melee because you can't just convert health to ammo, and the reload on dodge necklace appears in the second half of the game. Balance just for the sake of balance serves no one.

[Warl]

the narzism kicks really hard with you no? haha noobish

[Xero]

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

Is it making the game less fun? Are people getting bored because nothing else is as powerful? Are they completing the game too quickly?

Had a friend that needed help for a boss they were having trouble on, they summoned someone who used Dervla's, the summon proceeded to delete the boss. My friend then lost interest in the game because of the fact that his status build was just absolutely useless compared to a crossbow.

But hey, why shouldn't people avoid summoning when they want to actually fight bosses?

[Fishypixels]

Escrito originalmente por Xero:

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

Is it making the game less fun? Are people getting bored because nothing else is as powerful? Are they completing the game too quickly?

Had a friend that needed help for a boss they were having trouble on, they summoned someone who used Dervla's, the summon proceeded to delete the boss. My friend then lost interest in the game because of the fact that his status build was just absolutely useless compared to a crossbow.

But hey, why shouldn't people avoid summoning when they want to actually fight bosses?

I blame that much more on their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ coop scaling than the build. I've joined games where I absolutely wreck everything in sight and put the host to shame, but I also recently joined a host who was at least on an ng+2 run (based on missing vestiges). This is way above my lv99 character (me and a friend helped each other make twinks essentially by transferring gear from our mains), meaning their system needs to scale me up, which it didn't seem to do all that well. I was getting one shot by most things with 50 vitality (which sucked cause his/my connection was poo doo) and my crossbow build felt like it was under performing, i.e. a full salvo doing less than 5% of the bosses hp. We spent quite a while on Lightreaper because of this (dumped every vigor I got along the way in to vitality to try to survive) but I had a blast either way. Killed about 6 bosses with them. The vigor gain was insane.

Also, if your friend is gonna summon, why didn't he just summon you? Ya'll have total control of that experience then. I've played through the game more than twice with one of my buddies and it was epico. Sorry your friend lost interest and it seems like the crossbow build was the cause. He could have experienced this with any of the other strong builds, because again their scaling can be totally bonkers sometimes. Why didn't you encourage him to respec? If anything, this really is an indication that they just have a lot of useless items in the game that need buffs, i.e. MORE things need to be strong, not less.

[Xero]

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

Why didn't you encourage him to respec?

If he enjoyed his build, why should he have to respec? Why shouldn't crossbows be brought down in power instead of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on NUMEROUS other things?

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

my crossbow build felt like it was under performing, i.e. a full salvo doing less than 5% of the bosses hp.

"I'M IN NG+2 ON AN UNDERLEVELED BUILD AND I'M NOT CHUNKING THE BOSS'S HEALTH!" Cool. You shouldn't just be trivializing the boss with the crossbow anyway.

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

If anything, this really is an indication that they just have a lot of useless items in the game that need buffs, i.e. MORE things need to be strong, not less.

Just buff everything else, which in turn means buffing all enemies and then we get to the same point that we'd be at if we just nerfed crossbows...

[Fishypixels]

Escrito originalmente por Xero:

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

Why didn't you encourage him to respec?

If he enjoyed his build, why should he have to respec? Why shouldn't crossbows be brought down in power instead of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on NUMEROUS other things?

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

my crossbow build felt like it was under performing, i.e. a full salvo doing less than 5% of the bosses hp.

"I'M IN NG+2 ON AN UNDERLEVELED BUILD AND I'M NOT CHUNKING THE BOSS'S HEALTH!" Cool. You shouldn't just be trivializing the boss with the crossbow anyway.

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

If anything, this really is an indication that they just have a lot of useless items in the game that need buffs, i.e. MORE things need to be strong, not less.

Just buff everything else, which in turn means buffing all enemies and then we get to the same point that we'd be at if we just nerfed crossbows...

If he enjoyed his build, why did he lose interest? You aren't making any sense.

Why does buffing other weapons/builds mean we have to buff all the enemies? Most of these games are going to have some meta, OP build, and it sounds like you think no build should be OP at all, and for the sake of a friend who lost interest on a build that he liked but wasn't effective (so why did he like it?).

[Xero]

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

If he enjoyed his build, why did he lose interest? You aren't making any sense.

Why does buffing other weapons/builds mean we have to buff all the enemies? Most of these games are going to have some meta, OP build, and it sounds like you think no build should be OP at all, and for the sake of a friend who lost interest on a build that he liked but wasn't effective (so why did he like it?).

Disparity of strength compared to effort, having to build up several status effects takes much more effort than the guy with a crossbow hitting a single button to delete a boss.

Also, meta builds don't inherently mean OP. And yes, no builds should be OP (you know it means overpowered, right?) because it's an inherent balance issue. Buffing other weapons would lead to enemy buffs so people would still have a challenge. And I know, you crossbow lovers HATE challenge, you heard of how OP crossbows are and how little skill they use and came flocking to this game all so you could say you managed to beat a souls-like for once.

Literally, the argument is making something more balanced, and you counter by saying everything else needs to be unbalanced. Get a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ a grip and git gud at the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game without your crutch.

[Fishypixels]

Escrito originalmente por Xero:

Escrito originalmente por Fishypixels:

If he enjoyed his build, why did he lose interest? You aren't making any sense.

Why does buffing other weapons/builds mean we have to buff all the enemies? Most of these games are going to have some meta, OP build, and it sounds like you think no build should be OP at all, and for the sake of a friend who lost interest on a build that he liked but wasn't effective (so why did he like it?).

Disparity of strength compared to effort, having to build up several status effects takes much more effort than the guy with a crossbow hitting a single button to delete a boss.

Also, meta builds don't inherently mean OP. And yes, no builds should be OP (you know it means overpowered, right?) because it's an inherent balance issue. Buffing other weapons would lead to enemy buffs so people would still have a challenge. And I know, you crossbow lovers HATE challenge, you heard of how OP crossbows are and how little skill they use and came flocking to this game all so you could say you managed to beat a souls-like for once.

Literally, the argument is making something more balanced, and you counter by saying everything else needs to be unbalanced. Get a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ a grip and git gud at the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game without your crutch.

I'm sorry, meta generally means best of the best, which usually means OP. Rivers of blood anyone (pre nerf obviously)?

You still haven't said why there needs to be balance beyond the principle itself, other than your friend needing to git gud and losing interest. Maybe your friend would have kept his interest if he switched crossbow? lulz

I beat the game without a crossbow multiple times, because at first glance quality builds seemed to absolutely suck (and they do outside crossbow lol) so I immediately switched to strength/inferno. I didn't even start looking at crossbow till ng+2. Check yourself. When you've tried basically every melee build and wanna see something different, it doesn't mean you need to git gud. Maybe git un-bored.

[[Redacted]]

Listen ... I'm far more impressed by the npc's crossbows ... I mean they can shoot TWICE before reloading ...

\o/ *magic* \o/