DEVS PLEASE READ-Checkpoints

[chasemm18]

Ok, since this seems to be the requirement here to list all the souls games I've played/beaten so people will take my opinion somewhat seriously, I've beaten DS3, Elden Ring, Demons Souls, and Sekiro. There is only ONE thing that can really make me quit a game that I'm enjoying and that thing....is a game that does not respect my time. Elden Ring figured this out, hell Lies of P DEFINITELY figured this out...but spreading these damn rest points out so far and only giving us 1 of these dumb seeds to use at a time is mental. I don't know how this decision made it past QA. In Demon's Souls remake the bonfire locations are also quite terrible BUT that is a 1:1 remake of a game from over 13 years ago...its 2023, NOBODY wants to run through hordes of enemies over and over and over again while blindly trying to find a rest point. Also....its a slap in the face when you plant a damn seed and find out that there is a rest point literally in the next room...WHY PUT THE FLOWER BED THERE??? Unless its to deliberately punish us?

TLDR version

-Add more Vestiges
or
-Allow more than 1 seed to be planted at a time and GIVE US MORE SEEDS! Even if it was just 1 more seed and we were allowed to have two planted at any given time would be a vast improvement over what we have.
or
-Allow us to regain a seed by removing a player placed Vestige.

This game is good, and can be great, but this archaic crap has got to go. No one loves souls games because of the weird obtuse crap, we love them in spite of that stuff. Even FROM has dialed that stuff back for the sake of good game design.

Thank you!

[Hail]

Game in need of overall overhaul of enemies checkpoints and animations.
This devs and designers realy didn't learn anything from they previous flops.

[JerBeware]

Originally posted by Clientofwar:

Originally posted by JerBeware:

Seems like a weird way to try and justify a bad decision. You'll grow up some day and realize that wasting time is not the same thing as hard.

No one said anything about making the game less challenging. There are plenty of ways to do that, that are engaging, rewarding, and/or that can be fun for the player.

Wasting a player's time based on a bad game design decisions doesn't make it more challenging. It just makes it less respectful of the the player's time and introduces unnecessary frustration. Neither of which have anything to do with difficulty or challenge.

I'll grow up? I'm sorry, how old are you? I'm almost positive I'm older than you, unless your literally an old man. Also I grew up in a generation of incredibly difficult games that relied on a life system, and when you ran out of lives you either had to make a new save or start the level all the way over. Challenging games are whats needed in 2023. Games are catering towards the average gamer with barely any game experience, and as a result are getting dumbed down and made easier because the community complains about it being too hard.

"wasting a players time". You are playing a game, who the hell cares about the time you put into the game. You either enjoy it, or not. If you don't like the game, don't play it.

The game is great. Git gud.

Thank you for proving my point. Enjoy your weekend!

[The_K00lDude]

you can get vestiges from coop. I got load from just helping a few people at the start of the game (first true boss). 1 from the NPC and 1 from the boss. may be wrong but I'd assume all bosses give one past the first boss?

[Papa john]

i haven't played the game but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
i can't actually believe there are people defending the no checkpoints in demons souls
no checkpoints isn't difficult
it's just annoying and a waste of your time
when they made dark souls games they gave a little bit more of a ♥♥♥♥ about wasting the players time (ds2 had some strange exceptions)
elden ring took it a bit far but i understand why it's a thing
the time of 10 minute runbacks to a boss (thanks dark souls 2) should be gone
it isn't difficult to run past all of the enemies
it's just annoying
lies of p went another step by not putting your souls in the boss room
its called quality of life
it doesn't make the bosses any easier mechanically

[chosenxeno]

Glad to see this post! My theory is: They had no clue where to put them due to overly-ambitious layout design and that is why the seeds exist. All you have to do is look at how many Seed Beds are in Pilgrim's Perch. Dev placed Checkpoints are a the best indicators that you might be going the right direction. If seed beds were and Infinite Use item they would at least be acceptable.

[chasemm18]

Originally posted by Decitron:

Originally posted by Clientofwar:

This game isn't meant to be easy. Yes, those flower beds near already existing checkpoints are 100% there to fool you into wasting your seed to make a checkpoint. This game takes the whole Dark Souls trickery and amplifies it. I don't see an issue with the checkpoints, there are many and getting a manual checkpoint setup is like a reward for doing good.

Elden Ring, Lies of P, etc. Those games made the whole Souls-Like experience easier for the community. There are an abundance of checkpoints, too many actually. Many forgiving aspects of the game, and so on. They have been made easier and cater towards a more general player-base instead of the hardcore fans of older and more challenging Souls games.

Challenging games are good. We need more games that don't care about holding your hand and making the game a cakewalk for you. People are just mad at this game because they actually made it hard.

runbacks arent difficult. those games arent easier by virtue of having sensible checkpoints.

This here is exactly my point, doubling back again and again is not a challenge, it’s a waste of time. Having said that I see they lowered the vestige seed cost so it’s not such a pain to just stock up and dump them wherever , I still think it would be nice to have two custom vestiges at once.

[Papa john]

Originally posted by GRIEFFINDOR💚NO🤍INVADE💔:

Is it so hard to play the game as it is? Never seen such a whining community in years

is it so hard to let the community give feedback to the devs? Never seen such a whining fanboy in years

[königplatzen]

The seeds actually help to save time. Unlike Demon Souls, where you have to run from the beginning of an area all the way to the boss, you can plant one right before most boss fights.

I observed lots of people, who are too greedy to spend a seed, even when it's starting to get very risky. Then they die far into the level and have to run all the way back and probably loose everything.
Some people play, as if they are no seeds and only vestiges. And that can be quite punishing, esp. if you don't remember shortcuts.

[Papa john]

Originally posted by GRIEFFINDOR💚NO🤍INVADE💔:

Originally posted by Yuuma:

is it so hard to let the community give feedback to the devs? Never seen such a whining fanboy in years

I just enjoy the game as it is. But if you want, you can convince yourself that whining in forums will bring you presents under the tree this Xmas.

you're crying about people criticizing the game
definition fanboy

[undefined]

Originally posted by Clientofwar:

Originally posted by chasemm18:

Ok, since this seems to be the requirement here to list all the souls games I've played/beaten so people will take my opinion somewhat seriously, I've beaten DS3, Elden Ring, Demons Souls, and Sekiro. There is only ONE thing that can really make me quit a game that I'm enjoying and that thing....is a game that does not respect my time. Elden Ring figured this out, hell Lies of P DEFINITELY figured this out...but spreading these damn rest points out so far and only giving us 1 of these dumb seeds to use at a time is mental. I don't know how this decision made it past QA. In Demon's Souls remake the bonfire locations are also quite terrible BUT that is a 1:1 remake of a game from over 13 years ago...its 2023, NOBODY wants to run through hordes of enemies over and over and over again while blindly trying to find a rest point. Also....its a slap in the face when you plant a damn seed and find out that there is a rest point literally in the next room...WHY PUT THE FLOWER BED THERE??? Unless its to deliberately punish us?

TLDR version

-Add more Vestiges
or
-Allow more than 1 seed to be planted at a time and GIVE US MORE SEEDS! Even if it was just 1 more seed and we were allowed to have two planted at any given time would be a vast improvement over what we have.
or
-Allow us to regain a seed by removing a player placed Vestige.

This game is good, and can be great, but this archaic crap has got to go. No one loves souls games because of the weird obtuse crap, we love them in spite of that stuff. Even FROM has dialed that stuff back for the sake of good game design.

Thank you!

This game isn't meant to be easy. Yes, those flower beds near already existing checkpoints are 100% there to fool you into wasting your seed to make a checkpoint. This game takes the whole Dark Souls trickery and amplifies it. I don't see an issue with the checkpoints, there are many and getting a manual checkpoint setup is like a reward for doing good.

Elden Ring, Lies of P, etc. Those games made the whole Souls-Like experience easier for the community. There are an abundance of checkpoints, too many actually. Many forgiving aspects of the game, and so on. They have been made easier and cater towards a more general player-base instead of the hardcore fans of older and more challenging Souls games.

Challenging games are good. We need more games that don't care about holding your hand and making the game a cakewalk for you. People are just mad at this game because they actually made it hard.

I think you are confusing challenging with tedious. Don't feel bad though, the Souls playerbase has been doing it for over a decade.

[mayhem523]

There are plenty of checkpoints and shortcuts plus you can carry around 5 portable checkpoints in your pocket at all times. When you get down to one or two, port to hub and buy some more. As long as you have 1 seed you have unlimited .. because you can plant that one and go buy more.

I wish people wouldn't turn people off to the game with their nonsensical complaining.

[Blacksmith77K]

Hmmm, im in my 4th playthrough and need seeds if i need a break.

Otherwise you will be nearly immortal and need a seeds just before a boss fight. (Level 350 crusader)

So what?

[Redeemer]

Originally posted by Giant Feeble Lard Baby:

Agreed. In the forest now after you beat mouth with arms and that is the first real area that appears to rely more on manual vestiges. Level design there is a bit rough. There is a flower bed in the boss room and then shortly afterwards which made me think no proper checkpoint, and then to my surprise I see a checkpoint a few seconds around a corner after putting the seed down.

Gotta love that.. they consistently do that throughout the game.. seedbed near a vestige. I understand the logic; more checkpoint options for people who need it, but right when you're tempted you screw yourself haha

[Redeemer]

Originally posted by stevo:

The manual vestige system has caused them so many problems in balancing exploration. It's absolutely stupid that I have to choose wasting a very finite item (cost wise) just because I want a shorter Boss run. Not only that, but you can't even keep multiple manual vestige points.

I really think they should've made the vestige seed an infinite item given the system works this way. Making them cost 2500 a pop is kinda insulting for the early game

Molhu sells em for 1200 a pop.. not the best farm but doable..

[Redeemer]

Originally posted by Phobos:

Originally posted by chasemm18:

rejected.

I didn't see nioh on the list.

Nioh 2 has some nice shortcuts, and right when the tension builds they offer either a shortcut or a checkpoint. Better than this game with tension building (not a bad thing!) One area in Nioh spaced the checkpoints out a little further than I liked (certainly, with enemies made it frustrating) but I survived and got the boss. Generally though, checkpoints are very fair in that game.