Am I expected to constantly buy seeds to unlock save points?

[Dr.Acula]

I've gotten to the first sinner right after reaching the central hub of this game and now I've run into the problem of not having seeds to unlock stuff in these flower beds. So it seems like the game expects me to buy these things as they do not seem to be available un abundance when I explore the areas.

And it looks like minor save points along the paths require these things to unlock them. Is this really the approach LotF has taken or am I missing something here?

[Chap]

Flower beds aren't necessary, you should use them sparingly because some flower beds are in really stupid positions, like just before/after a save point. the most useful flower beds i can remember off of my head are all just before bosses to stop painful runbacks, so you shouldn't be using them a lot at all unless you have made a lot of progress without finding a save point.

You can farm them from the womb of despair (flying umbral enemy with insect wings) if you really need them badly

[Dr.Acula]

Thanks for the information.

Honestly though that is a kind of mechanic that really annoys me and I don't see any reason for it existing other than to annoy the player. What benefit does it have to put all these flower beds along the way with limited seeds available when I'm being punished for using them?

[Chap]

The devs can't know when someone might need a flowerbed, so they put them everywhere. it punishes new players a lot by not encouraging the souls cycle of dying and learning how to play through a level better. the only thing i use them for is for faster runbacks, or if I'm low on healing and have a lot of vigor to pick up somewhere, the game could have pointed out how sparingly vestige seeds should be used, or not allowed the player to buy them until later in the game to reinforce that they should be saved for difficult areas.

[WhiteLezard]

They aren't a punishment; they're another resource you need to learn to use as needed.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by WhiteLezard:

They aren't a punishment; they're another resource you need to learn to use as needed.

And you are punished when you do not know how to use them in the right situations.

Also please tell me the actual benefit of this particular resource management. What makes you think the game is better with these seeds instead of without them.

[Portico]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Originally posted by WhiteLezard:

They aren't a punishment; they're another resource you need to learn to use as needed.

And you are punished when you do not know how to use them in the right situations.

You said it yourself. Skill issue.
You get a ton of them just by staying in umbral and swatting bugs.

[WhiteLezard]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Originally posted by WhiteLezard:

They aren't a punishment; they're another resource you need to learn to use as needed.

And you are punished when you do not know how to use them in the right situations.

Also please tell me the actual benefit of this particular resource management. What makes you think the game is better with these seeds instead of without them.

Well, it's pretty obvious they're a finite resource you need to learn when to use. Like when you play a Resident Evil game and you know you should use rare powerful ammo on regular zombies.
Advantages? they give you flexibility when it comes to save points outside the fixed ones and can be a lifesaver when you don't know how far you are from the next shortcut and need a respite.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by WhiteLezard:

Well, it's pretty obvious they're a finite resource you need to learn when to use. Like when you play a Resident Evil game and you know you should use rare powerful ammo on regular zombies.

First off all it's a bad comparison. Second of all even Resident Evil games had issues due to their resource management systems. I think it's one of the terrible aspects especially of the early games and I absolutely hated the return of this nonsense in RE7 and was happy it became less of a hastle in RE Village again.

In addition if we go with the more action oriented RE games (RE4, 5, 6 and Village), you could actually complete the game with the basic pistol. I even did so in one playthrough. The special ammo is not really needed and doesn't have to be managed. Also the game doesn't really punish you if you use special ammo outside boss fights. As explained you can finish the game with the pistol and resources to upgrade the pistol are easily accessible.

Originally posted by WhiteLezard:

Advantages? they give you flexibility when it comes to save points outside the fixed ones and can be a lifesaver when you don't know how far you are from the next shortcut and need a respite.

But it doesn't give you flexibility. Especially on your first playthrough you cannot know where sensible spots are to use the seed and if you've already used the ones you have in "pointless" spots you will have to specifically look for more of them.

And to know where to use it I basically have to push past potential safe points to see if something of danger is there (bosses or difficult enemies) probably dying in the process to then repeat the route and still re-consider "Do I need this now? When will I get the next one?" It's an awful system and honestly your argument is not selling me on the idea.

It's not flexible. It actually creates less flexibility than the grace points that exist in fromsoft games and to me it appears like they created it just for the sake of being somewhat different with their save points and making that system more "challenging" to use. It's basically an inconvenience for the sake of being an inconvenience.

[Vortiene]

Stay in umbral and kill the umbral brood mothers or whatever they're called, you always get a vestige seed from them. I have like 100 of them.

[Areant]

If you're mad about the seeds now, you're going to love NG+

[Nickscamping]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Thanks for the information.

Honestly though that is a kind of mechanic that really annoys me and I don't see any reason for it existing other than to annoy the player. What benefit does it have to put all these flower beds along the way with limited seeds available when I'm being punished for using them?

Itll make sense if you try and 100% and do modifier achievements

[Markytous]

They are 1500 vigor a piece from Molhu also. You can get a lot of them. They used to be capped at 5 back when the game came out. They also drop abundantly from elite enemies in the Umbral world. Don't sweat it.

[Dr.Acula]

I'm not sweating it anymore as I've dropped the game already.