Honestly Curious about people who like the game

[Cåt]

People who like or love this game, how can you excuse the absolute abuse of recycled enemies and bosses? Honestly, because I could for the first half, even if I didn't consciously think about, but towards the end it became so painfully obvious and annoying that the devs just reskinned basic enemies, made them the boss of the start of an area, and did so through the whole game. Even after watching videos the criticized the game, one mentioned that The Hushed Saint's moveset, is literally reused in the first phase of Tancred, that for A MAJOR BOSS, is inexcusable.

"Elden Ring reused bosses too, and dark souls have made bosses into area enemies before" Yes they have, and I don't really like it there either, but Lords of the fallen just does it to such and aggressive and careless degree that it doesn't feel like clever recycling, but because of laziness rather.

I'm genuinely curious how people can overlook these things, when the game itself is mediocre, in my opinion at least. Please Tell me

[VonRaven 666]

Curiousity killed the cat.

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

Probably because I am not as spoiled as the a new generations of gamers who did not start off playing PC games where there isn't color, the games are mostly black and white and the graphics are made of white squares. I came a long way as a gamer. I hope one day I can play games where I can immerse in a true 3D world like those Japanese Animation Sword art on line if I get to live long enough.

For one, repeated enemies are not bothering me because the combat is good. Their designs also fit the theme in the world created by the developers. They don't feel out of place.

More enemies varieties doesn't always make good games. Many good souls like game like, Nioh 2, Wo Long, Dark souls series, Elden Ring. All have low counts, in terms of enemies type. Especially Nioh 2 and Wo Long. If you read Elden Ring Forum. There are always people complaining about copy and paste. While LOTF do have way lower enemy types varieties, it doesn't bother me. It felt no different then the other games to me. It would be good if they have more types of enemies but that is no reason to crap on a game. Again combat feels really good.

Despite all the flaws in this game, I do enjoy playing it. In fact, if they put in more effort in balancing the game play. It would be one of the better games out there. Also, I am looking forward to any expansion they have install in the future.

Finally, why does it bother you that other people enjoy playing this game? What is the real purpose of your thread?

[BuddyBubble]

I've played a lot of soulslike games and when Lords of the Fallen came out I played it pretty excessively. I didn't really notice the recurring enemies. I think the graphics are very beautiful and that's probably what captivated me the most. The level design was "good" so far and that's why I wanted to continue playing it.

I wouldn't call it boss recycling either, I would rather say that some "bosses" are intended to introduce another type of enemy, not as a conclusion to a game section.

I also played the game before the first patch, where supposedly too many enemies spawn in Umbral. I didn't feel that way at the time either. I would rather say that anyone who rushes forward headlessly and then finds themselves in a dead end and is then overrun in the umbral was simply too careless.

Furthermore, I don't understand some of the criticism of the game, when Dark Souls was released back then, the criticism wasn't heard on every corner, from every 12 year old, simply because there weren't the opportunities to add your two cents everywhere. I don't mean your criticism by that, it's more of a constructive inquiry, but that some people just complain for the sake of complaining, but their criticism isn't really tangible or justified.

[Cåt]

Originally posted by 楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE:

Probably because I am not as spoiled as the a new generations of gamers who did not start off playing PC games where there isn't color, the games are mostly black and white and the graphics are made of white squares. I came a long way as a gamer. I hope one day I can play games where I can immerse in a true 3D world like those Japanese Animation Sword art on line if I get to live long enough.

For one, repeated enemies are not bothering me because the combat is good. Their designs also fit the theme in the world created by the developers. They don't feel out of place.

More enemies varieties doesn't always make good games. Many good souls like game like, Nioh 2, Wo Long, Dark souls series, Elden Ring. All have low counts, in terms of enemies type. Especially Nioh 2 and Wo Long. If you read Elden Ring Forum. There are always people complaining about copy and paste. While LOTF do have way lower enemy types varieties, it doesn't bother me. It felt no different then the other games to me. It would be good if they have more types of enemies but that is no reason to crap on a game. Again combat feels really good.

Despite all the flaws in this game, I do enjoy playing it. In fact, if they put in more effort in balancing the game play. It would be one of the better games out there. Also, I am looking forward to any expansion they have install in the future.

Finally, why does it bother you that other people enjoy playing this game? What is the real purpose of your thread?

I doesn't necessarily bother me that others enjoy it, but that people disregard it as something that doesn't need to be improved on. Coming off Lies Of P a month or 2 ago, only personally highlights for me how this game has a lackluster variety and placement of enemies. It is certainly impressive how they executed the 2 world idea, but that's the only thing I feel it does uniquely. I was seriously enjoying this game the first 20 hours, but as soon as I realized *HOW* they were reusing basic enemies and labeling them as bosses my cynicism just took over, and I was just bumbed out

[Cåt]

Originally posted by BuddyBubble:

I've played a lot of soulslike games and when Lords of the Fallen came out I played it pretty excessively. I didn't really notice the recurring enemies. I think the graphics are very beautiful and that's probably what captivated me the most. The level design was "good" so far and that's why I wanted to continue playing it.

I wouldn't call it boss recycling either, I would rather say that some "bosses" are intended to introduce another type of enemy, not as a conclusion to a game section.

I also played the game before the first patch, where supposedly too many enemies spawn in Umbral. I didn't feel that way at the time either. I would rather say that anyone who rushes forward headlessly and then finds themselves in a dead end and is then overrun in the umbral was simply too careless.

Furthermore, I don't understand some of the criticism of the game, when Dark Souls was released back then, the criticism wasn't heard on every corner, from every 12 year old, simply because there weren't the opportunities to add your two cents everywhere. I don't mean your criticism by that, it's more of a constructive inquiry, but that some people just complain for the sake of complaining, but their criticism isn't really tangible or justified.

The game and artstyle are very good, that is something I really stopped to look at now and then.

I also like the way umbral works, with how you're forced into it for dying, and actively respawning enemies to punish you for dying in the first place. Just think the puzzles become needless in some scenarios.

I think making framing your first encounter with a normal enemy as boss, as a way to introduce them, is kinda backwards. Because why is that not then done with other normal enemies? It, for me at least, makes them feel less special that way, especially when you can tell other aesthetically different enemies have the exact same moveset.

I have my own criticism of dark souls and the like:
DS 1: Second half suffers from copy paste key syndrome with enemy placements
DS 2: Has so obnoxiously many enemies that it becomes a battle of patience
Elden Ring: Last boss is one of the worst in the game and a dissapointment, I find the reuse more acceptable here because of how giant the game is and how sparse the reuses are in the grand scheme of things.

I just feel this game suffers from the worst lows of DS 2 and 1, without the highs of either.

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

Originally posted by Cåt:

Originally posted by 楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE:

Probably because I am not as spoiled as the a new generations of gamers who did not start off playing PC games where there isn't color, the games are mostly black and white and the graphics are made of white squares. I came a long way as a gamer. I hope one day I can play games where I can immerse in a true 3D world like those Japanese Animation Sword art on line if I get to live long enough.

For one, repeated enemies are not bothering me because the combat is good. Their designs also fit the theme in the world created by the developers. They don't feel out of place.

More enemies varieties doesn't always make good games. Many good souls like game like, Nioh 2, Wo Long, Dark souls series, Elden Ring. All have low counts, in terms of enemies type. Especially Nioh 2 and Wo Long. If you read Elden Ring Forum. There are always people complaining about copy and paste. While LOTF do have way lower enemy types varieties, it doesn't bother me. It felt no different then the other games to me. It would be good if they have more types of enemies but that is no reason to crap on a game. Again combat feels really good.

Despite all the flaws in this game, I do enjoy playing it. In fact, if they put in more effort in balancing the game play. It would be one of the better games out there. Also, I am looking forward to any expansion they have install in the future.

Finally, why does it bother you that other people enjoy playing this game? What is the real purpose of your thread?

I doesn't necessarily bother me that others enjoy it, but that people disregard it as something that doesn't need to be improved on. Coming off Lies Of P a month or 2 ago, only personally highlights for me how this game has a lackluster variety and placement of enemies. It is certainly impressive how they executed the 2 world idea, but that's the only thing I feel it does uniquely. I was seriously enjoying this game the first 20 hours, but as soon as I realized *HOW* they were reusing basic enemies and labeling them as bosses my cynicism just took over, and I was just bumbed out

This sounds like a you problem to be honest. I do have lies of P. Other than bosses, which are way better than LOTF. There was nothing special about the combat and the enemies.

[I_come_in_peace]

To me the question is: Does the game as a whole create an immersive, captivating atmosphere. And LotF did that for me - I don't mind "recycled" enemies, as long as the context they appear in changes. Fighting the same kind of enemy in limited space or hazardous environment or in different combinations or with other perils around changes the way you have to fight them and what you have to pay attention to. So instead of "individual" variety I look more for different settings. How many unique enemies did Half Life 2 have? Maybe a dozen? And yet Valve kept creating situations where fighting them required a new plan. LotF works a lot like that for me. To compare: On paper Lies of P may have a few more enemies, but the locations you fight them have very little variation. In the end LoP - despite the superior boss fights - tired me with endless repetition and linear progress. What I really don't understand is how one can complain about minor bosses being reused later on. First: lots of games do it. And: It adds more variety than *not* using them, it feels rewarding beating them again (probably with more ease) or it adds a sense of dread because you struggled with this boss before. Often special enemies force you to abandon a certain playstyle and to adapt. All good in my book. But what can I say, I also like roguelikes like Hades or Witchfire, where you literary fight the same enemy types again and again, so maybe it's just a matter of taste.

[SkyrimWitcher]

i like this game

[Cåt]

Originally posted by 楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE:

Originally posted by Cåt:

I doesn't necessarily bother me that others enjoy it, but that people disregard it as something that doesn't need to be improved on. Coming off Lies Of P a month or 2 ago, only personally highlights for me how this game has a lackluster variety and placement of enemies. It is certainly impressive how they executed the 2 world idea, but that's the only thing I feel it does uniquely. I was seriously enjoying this game the first 20 hours, but as soon as I realized *HOW* they were reusing basic enemies and labeling them as bosses my cynicism just took over, and I was just bumbed out

This sounds like a you problem to be honest. I do have lies of P. Other than bosses, which are way better than LOTF. There was nothing special about the combat and the enemies.

I disagree. The combat in LOTF is good, if a little unfocused. Like I rarely used the umbral lantern to push enemies or hit their souls. The parrying also doesn't feel necessary, the damage you get out of the critical attacks (the attack you perform from staggering them) is not that great.

Whereas in LoP you are encouraged to stagger and execute those critical hits, not just cause it causes damage, but because it keeps enemies from regenerating their own lost health, and the game makes you earn it, by making you have to hit them with a heavy attack. The combat is focused around staggering, but parrying and blocking are never always the best option against enemies, so it feels like you always have to consider your approach.

LoP just has a stronger focus and rhythm in it's combat and enemy design that I just never felt with LOTF. It may be a me problem, but I really recommend Joseph Anderson's Lies of P critique video, because he explains it so well, and made observations that I never even made.
But everyone is entitled to their opinions, it's fine if you think their equal in their combat systems, I just don't because I just see more evidence to the contrary.

[NightLizard]

Originally posted by Cåt:

People who like or love this game, how can you excuse the absolute abuse of recycled enemies and bosses? Honestly, because I could for the first half, even if I didn't consciously think about, but towards the end it became so painfully obvious and annoying that the devs just reskinned basic enemies, made them the boss of the start of an area, and did so through the whole game. Even after watching videos the criticized the game, one mentioned that The Hushed Saint's moveset, is literally reused in the first phase of Tancred, that for A MAJOR BOSS, is inexcusable.

"Elden Ring reused bosses too, and dark souls have made bosses into area enemies before" Yes they have, and I don't really like it there either, but Lords of the fallen just does it to such and aggressive and careless degree that it doesn't feel like clever recycling, but because of laziness rather.

I'm genuinely curious how people can overlook these things, when the game itself is mediocre, in my opinion at least. Please Tell me

I dont disagree, but what makes this game bad isnt any of what you wrote.

They trashed quality of life in every way possible, game design of maps exploration was done with coop experience in mind instead of singleplayer, multiplayer has some serious and worse hitbox issues than dark souls, minimum souls/currency drop from enemies to make grind harder and longer. NG and NG+ bosses balances health is trash af, its like fighting Midir from Dark souls over and over again, with big sponge health bars.


Art desing is awesome, OST is ok, fashion is awesome, weapon moveset ? Sexy, spells ? A lot of them are sexy, the way to unlock some stuff? Smart, coop ?one of best ever made to the genre of soulslike.

so its a 50/50. Personally for the looks of epic fights i think everyone should play this at least ONCE, but i seriously believe we deserve a better experience as paying customers, i had more fun playing first game which is worse in every design possible but had a fair approach.

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

Originally posted by Cåt:

Originally posted by 楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE:

This sounds like a you problem to be honest. I do have lies of P. Other than bosses, which are way better than LOTF. There was nothing special about the combat and the enemies.

I disagree. The combat in LOTF is good, if a little unfocused. Like I rarely used the umbral lantern to push enemies or hit their souls. The parrying also doesn't feel necessary, the damage you get out of the critical attacks (the attack you perform from staggering them) is not that great.

Whereas in LoP you are encouraged to stagger and execute those critical hits, not just cause it causes damage, but because it keeps enemies from regenerating their own lost health, and the game makes you earn it, by making you have to hit them with a heavy attack. The combat is focused around staggering, but parrying and blocking are never always the best option against enemies, so it feels like you always have to consider your approach.

LoP just has a stronger focus and rhythm in it's combat and enemy design that I just never felt with LOTF. It may be a me problem, but I really recommend Joseph Anderson's Lies of P critique video, because he explains it so well, and made observations that I never even made.
But everyone is entitled to their opinions, it's fine if you think their equal in their combat systems, I just don't because I just see more evidence to the contrary.

Here is the thing. You can disagree with me, because IMO. Lies of P has nothing special in the combat. It is just a dark souls clone with some of the newer parry mechanic that even LOTF has. Though the reward for parrying is more gratifying than LOTF, just like dark souls. That is about it difference it has.

I personally find mob battles in LOTF really fun. Especially during my first play thru while I am learning to play the game. I remember getting serious cornered, out numbered and prevailed, despite being low on HP and heals. It was fast pace awesome. Now being a more seasoned player in LOTF, I am cleaving mobs like cutting grass left and right, dynasty warrior style, very satisfying.

Lies of P battles is just the same as old Dark Souls 1 but polished, with special moves like dark souls 3. It is a good game mind you and I like it, but it has been unnecessary elevated to some kind of master piece status like Sekiro by people who love it. Nothing wrong with that until they go to another game's forum and start telling other people what game they should favor.

Whatever rhythm you feel for Lies of P. I don't feel it. It just plays like any other souls game to me, mostly dark sousl 1+3. Sekiro is more about rhythm in my opinion, Also a good game but more about memorizing deflecting timings to break boss posture. Different types of combat.

Also, I just finished a 2 hour coop with a random polish/russian player. It was awesome. He was probably under level and we fought Tancred in the last fight. He might be under level, so the fight was harder for both of us probably because my OP character has to scale with his level. He abandoned his grand hammer, took up a huge shield while I uses my grand sword. We worked as a team, took many tries, him being the anvil, I being the hammer. We took out the boss and celebrated like crazy after the victory. It felt like an MMORPG boss fight, one guy will tank and the other do DPS(slow and heavy version).

To each his own. If you don't like LOTF you can play Lies of P again. Nobody is stopping you. I don't need a you tuber to tell me his opinions about a game. I have a mind of my own thank you.

[Roach]

Originally posted by Cåt:

People who like or love this game, how can you excuse the absolute abuse of recycled enemies and bosses? Honestly, because I could for the first half, even if I didn't consciously think about, but towards the end it became so painfully obvious and annoying that the devs just reskinned basic enemies, made them the boss of the start of an area, and did so through the whole game. Even after watching videos the criticized the game, one mentioned that The Hushed Saint's moveset, is literally reused in the first phase of Tancred, that for A MAJOR BOSS, is inexcusable.

"Elden Ring reused bosses too, and dark souls have made bosses into area enemies before" Yes they have, and I don't really like it there either, but Lords of the fallen just does it to such and aggressive and careless degree that it doesn't feel like clever recycling, but because of laziness rather.

I'm genuinely curious how people can overlook these things, when the game itself is mediocre, in my opinion at least. Please Tell me

I mean you had to go watch videos of someone explaining it to you before you even noticed it.....Im just gonna leave it at that.

[Cåt]

Originally posted by 楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE:

Originally posted by Cåt:

I disagree. The combat in LOTF is good, if a little unfocused. Like I rarely used the umbral lantern to push enemies or hit their souls. The parrying also doesn't feel necessary, the damage you get out of the critical attacks (the attack you perform from staggering them) is not that great.

Whereas in LoP you are encouraged to stagger and execute those critical hits, not just cause it causes damage, but because it keeps enemies from regenerating their own lost health, and the game makes you earn it, by making you have to hit them with a heavy attack. The combat is focused around staggering, but parrying and blocking are never always the best option against enemies, so it feels like you always have to consider your approach.

LoP just has a stronger focus and rhythm in it's combat and enemy design that I just never felt with LOTF. It may be a me problem, but I really recommend Joseph Anderson's Lies of P critique video, because he explains it so well, and made observations that I never even made.
But everyone is entitled to their opinions, it's fine if you think their equal in their combat systems, I just don't because I just see more evidence to the contrary.

Here is the thing. You can disagree with me, because IMO. Lies of P has nothing special in the combat. It is just a dark souls clone with some of the newer parry mechanic that even LOTF has. Though the reward for parrying is more gratifying than LOTF, just like dark souls. That is about it difference it has.

I personally find mob battles in LOTF really fun. Especially during my first play thru while I am learning to play the game. I remember getting serious cornered, out numbered and prevailed, despite being low on HP and heals. It was fast pace awesome. Now being a more seasoned player in LOTF, I am cleaving mobs like cutting grass left and right, dynasty warrior style, very satisfying.

Lies of P battles is just the same as old Dark Souls 1 but polished, with special moves like dark souls 3. It is a good game mind you and I like it, but it has been unnecessary elevated to some kind of master piece status like Sekiro by people who love it. Nothing wrong with that until they go to another game's forum and start telling other people what game they should favor.

Whatever rhythm you feel for Lies of P. I don't feel it. It just plays like any other souls game to me, mostly dark sousl 1+3. Sekiro is more about rhythm in my opinion, Also a good game but more about memorizing deflecting timings to break boss posture. Different types of combat.

Also, I just finished a 2 hour coop with a random polish/russian player. It was awesome. He was probably under level and we fought Tancred in the last fight. He might be under level, so the fight was harder for both of us probably because my OP character has to scale with his level. He abandoned his grand hammer, took up a huge shield while I uses my grand sword. We worked as a team, took many tries, him being the anvil, I being the hammer. We took out the boss and celebrated like crazy after the victory. It felt like an MMORPG boss fight, one guy will tank and the other do DPS(slow and heavy version).

To each his own. If you don't like LOTF you can play Lies of P again. Nobody is stopping you. I don't need a you tuber to tell me his opinions about a game. I have a mind of my own thank you.

That's fair, I'm glad you can get more out of it than me, because I genuinely wish I could

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

Originally posted by Cåt:

Originally posted by 楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE:

Here is the thing. You can disagree with me, because IMO. Lies of P has nothing special in the combat. It is just a dark souls clone with some of the newer parry mechanic that even LOTF has. Though the reward for parrying is more gratifying than LOTF, just like dark souls. That is about it difference it has.

I personally find mob battles in LOTF really fun. Especially during my first play thru while I am learning to play the game. I remember getting serious cornered, out numbered and prevailed, despite being low on HP and heals. It was fast pace awesome. Now being a more seasoned player in LOTF, I am cleaving mobs like cutting grass left and right, dynasty warrior style, very satisfying.

Lies of P battles is just the same as old Dark Souls 1 but polished, with special moves like dark souls 3. It is a good game mind you and I like it, but it has been unnecessary elevated to some kind of master piece status like Sekiro by people who love it. Nothing wrong with that until they go to another game's forum and start telling other people what game they should favor.

Whatever rhythm you feel for Lies of P. I don't feel it. It just plays like any other souls game to me, mostly dark sousl 1+3. Sekiro is more about rhythm in my opinion, Also a good game but more about memorizing deflecting timings to break boss posture. Different types of combat.

Also, I just finished a 2 hour coop with a random polish/russian player. It was awesome. He was probably under level and we fought Tancred in the last fight. He might be under level, so the fight was harder for both of us probably because my OP character has to scale with his level. He abandoned his grand hammer, took up a huge shield while I uses my grand sword. We worked as a team, took many tries, him being the anvil, I being the hammer. We took out the boss and celebrated like crazy after the victory. It felt like an MMORPG boss fight, one guy will tank and the other do DPS(slow and heavy version).

To each his own. If you don't like LOTF you can play Lies of P again. Nobody is stopping you. I don't need a you tuber to tell me his opinions about a game. I have a mind of my own thank you.

That's fair, I'm glad you can get more out of it than me, because I genuinely wish I could

Like I say, to each his own. Nobody should care.

[königplatzen]

Originally posted by I_come_in_peace:

To me the question is: Does the game as a whole create an immersive, captivating atmosphere. And LotF did that for me - I don't mind "recycled" enemies, as long as the context they appear in changes. Fighting the same kind of enemy in limited space or hazardous environment or in different combinations or with other perils around changes the way you have to fight them and what you have to pay attention to. So instead of "individual" variety I look more for different settings. How many unique enemies did Half Life 2 have? Maybe a dozen? And yet Valve kept creating situations where fighting them required a new plan. LotF works a lot like that for me. To compare: On paper Lies of P may have a few more enemies, but the locations you fight them have very little variation. In the end LoP - despite the superior boss fights - tired me with endless repetition and linear progress. What I really don't understand is how one can complain about minor bosses being reused later on. First: lots of games do it. And: It adds more variety than *not* using them, it feels rewarding beating them again (probably with more ease) or it adds a sense of dread because you struggled with this boss before. Often special enemies force you to abandon a certain playstyle and to adapt. All good in my book. But what can I say, I also like roguelikes like Hades or Witchfire, where you literary fight the same enemy types again and again, so maybe it's just a matter of taste.

+1
That's a good description, how I also feel.