umbral twice as strong as the other two

[Morgul]

According to my logic, Umbral should be twice as strong as the other two. Since you need both radi and inf for an umbral spell, you need twice as many points to be able to use an umbral spell.
Is it really worth it or is it just for blue flame lovers or people who don't care that much about their stats?

Would you like an example?
Infernal Orb = requires 8 points in inferno (8 points total)
Radiant Flare = requires 8 points in radians (8 points total)
Umbral Orb = requires 8 points in inferno AND Radiant (16 points total)

[DragynDance]

The main thing that makes umbral strong isn't so much how good umbral spells are themselves, but rather just how good the pendant of atrophy is when used with umbral spells.

[Lesmir]

it doesnt really do much more dmg but more enemy are weak to the umbral element and umbral creature resist everything beside umbral element. also its look cool and spell are accessible.

anyway caster sucks in this game , you can build up a good crossbow that will deal way more damage with infinite ammo for very little investment comparing to spell casting...

[The Ultimate Despair]

Originally posted by DragynDance:

The main thing that makes umbral strong isn't so much how good umbral spells are themselves, but rather just how good the pendant of atrophy is when used with umbral spells.

The spells are super good by themselves as well

[The Ultimate Despair]

Originally posted by Lesmir:

it doesnt really do much more dmg but more enemy are weak to the umbral element and umbral creature resist everything beside umbral element. also its look cool and spell are accessible.

anyway caster sucks in this game , you can build up a good crossbow that will deal way more damage with infinite ammo for very little investment comparing to spell casting...

Casters suck? Funny. I made only casters so far, I just wreck everything.

[Lala]

Originally posted by Morgul:

According to my logic, Umbral should be twice as strong as the other two. Since you need both radi and inf for an umbral spell, you need twice as many points to be able to use an umbral spell.
Is it really worth it or is it just for blue flame lovers or people who don't care that much about their stats?

Would you like an example?
Infernal Orb = requires 8 points in inferno (8 points total)
Radiant Flare = requires 8 points in radians (8 points total)
Umbral Orb = requires 8 points in inferno AND Radiant (16 points total)

umbral is stronger.(subjective)it isnt about the burst its about the wither debuff~ often times mobs dont come with heavy wither resist compared to mobs with rad/inf resist as well

[Lesmir]

Originally posted by The Ultimate Despair:

Originally posted by Lesmir:

it doesnt really do much more dmg but more enemy are weak to the umbral element and umbral creature resist everything beside umbral element. also its look cool and spell are accessible.

anyway caster sucks in this game , you can build up a good crossbow that will deal way more damage with infinite ammo for very little investment comparing to spell casting...

Casters suck? Funny. I made only casters so far, I just wreck everything.

melee get a build that let them be litteraly immortal while charging heavy attack
crossbow require 5 time less investment and deal as much or even more damage than spell with infinite ammo

caster have to follow quest to get spell , spread their stats more , invest more in item and consumable , good spell are lock in endgame etc etc. you can wreck evetything with a ♥♥♥♥ bucket it doesnt mean its good compare to other stuff

[DragynDance]

Casters can be insanely strong, just as busted as melee.

[Lesmir]

Originally posted by DragynDance:

Casters can be insanely strong, just as busted as melee.

but to be just as strong they require more investment.

[DragynDance]

Originally posted by Lesmir:

Originally posted by DragynDance:

Casters can be insanely strong, just as busted as melee.

but to be just as strong they require more investment.

About the same investment to me, honestly? In fact, they might even need less because you don't really need as much equip load.

[LuckyRaphi]

Originally posted by Lesmir:

it doesnt really do much more dmg but more enemy are weak to the umbral element and umbral creature resist everything beside umbral element. also its look cool and spell are accessible.

anyway caster sucks in this game , you can build up a good crossbow that will deal way more damage with infinite ammo for very little investment comparing to spell casting...

Yes the projectiles are not the best but magic has more utility like AOE and buffs

[Morgul]

So in summary, this is how I understood it: Umbral is nice to have but the bottom line is that it's not worth the extra effort?

[Lesmir]

Originally posted by DragynDance:

Originally posted by Lesmir:

but to be just as strong they require more investment.

About the same investment to me, honestly? In fact, they might even need less because you don't really need as much equip load.

less investment... you just need 1 stat for damage so no need to spread, no need of mana or mana regen runes so you can all focus on damage ( you can use 2 weapon for extra damage cause you dont need a shield for mana regen runes ) dont need to follow any quest to unlock spell or catalyst, have access to all element with amunition type and the key item is an umbral eye so your ring and amulet are free to set up build or specialise in a damage type ( which can be switch base on the enemy you are facing ) and until you get the infinite ammo , ammo pouch are instant ( while mana regen is super slow with mana stone and even slower with mana ring + mana rune ) it require less equip load too since you dont need a shield , you could use 2 dagger since you only need them for rune slot

[Lesmir]

Originally posted by Morgul:

So in summary, this is how I understood it: Umbral is nice to have but the bottom line is that it's not worth the extra effort?

the '' worth '' of it depend on your preference. i find umbral more fun to play and the starting spell and catalyst can do a good job until you get the later stuff. also there is no real meta right now so you can level up all your stats to 99 ( well hard cap is 75 but you see the point )

[lmaogg]

Originally posted by Morgul:

So in summary, this is how I understood it: Umbral is nice to have but the bottom line is that it's not worth the extra effort?

umbral is actually pretty strong, since you can just equip the rings for casting inferno/radiant spells with umbral catalyst and the spellpower still scales based on umbral stats. You can essentially create tons of combo if you want to. Or just equip all the meta spells from other spell types
It does tend to scale slower due to the split stats, that's just how balancing works.

eg. 44 inferno is technically on par with 22 inferno 22 radiant umbral. In darksouls/elden ring equivalent at least, if you go 30 inferno + 10 radiant it actually gain lesser increment till you balance out the stats again due to diminishing return

The problem now is, this game has serious balancing issues. Some spells are simply better than others. While some do literally zero damage or have clunky projectiles even if you have full stats investments. It's hard to really say which is the strongest when things aren't even working evenly among the 3 types.

[The Ultimate Despair]

Originally posted by Lesmir:

Originally posted by The Ultimate Despair:

Casters suck? Funny. I made only casters so far, I just wreck everything.

melee get a build that let them be litteraly immortal while charging heavy attack
crossbow require 5 time less investment and deal as much or even more damage than spell with infinite ammo

caster have to follow quest to get spell , spread their stats more , invest more in item and consumable , good spell are lock in endgame etc etc. you can wreck evetything with a ♥♥♥♥ bucket it doesnt mean its good compare to other stuff

And just because other stuff is 'better' doesn't mean that other stuff magically suck. See how easy it is to completely destroy your entire argument?
All you are saying is based on other things being better. But so what? My casters still destroy everything in seconds. No need for end game either. The Hushed Saint spell wrecks from the second you get it, and its literally the second main boss.
Get a bit further and you get to the Manse, which gets insane spells easily as well.