Scaling explained

[Crux]

I went to look for the difference between Ativ and Hilvit and found this post-


I was trying to find the best combination to maximize my damage for my strength build and here are some things I learned. I use grand weapons so all of my testing uses the strength scaling grand weapons.

Did a little more testing and retesting of scaling runes and learned that scaling runes vary by the weapon's innate scaling bonus seemly (makes sense in hindsight). Also I had a misconception about how damage was calculated in the last post.

Not sure if I am going to do element rune and ring testing right now, but if some has I would happy to add it to this post to your credit. Same goes if anyone as alternate testing on what's in this post.

Damage Calculations
I think I worked out how some of the damage is calculated. Base Damage seems to be attack power times the motion value of the attack minus, or plus if the enemy is weak to the damage element, enemy defense. I don't have the motions values of attacks all attacks for every weapon/weapon class. The best I can tell is the main weapon I use, the Faithful Bludgeon. The Faithful Bludgeon regular, not running or dodging, 2 handed light attack motion value is 1.333685322069694. That means at +10 with 75 strength the damage dealt is 1263, the attack power times the motion value of 1.333685322069694, minus the enemy defense. Against a Holy Bulwark enemy whose physical defense is 581 my final damage to him on a 2 handed light attack is 682.0000000000002, 682 rounded, without any runes or rings.

The damage of the 1 handed light attack 583 so the motion value comes out to 1.22914 (Yeah it was that many decimal places before the numbers lined up).

Pieta's Sword 2 handed light attack seems to have a motion value of 2.12280701754386 and 1.952380952380952 motion value for a regular 1 hand light attack. Despite the Holy Bulwark having 380 holy defense Pieta'a Sword dealt 467 per two handed light attack and 399 per 1 handed light attack.

As far as I can tell split damage weapon are calculated as a whole unit as oppose to each damage type being separately calculated versus an enemy's defense and then added together to get the total. Using the Sword of Skin and Tooth at +10 with 75 strength it has an attack power of 859 (542 physical damage and 117 fire damage). Against the Holy Bulwark which has 581 physical defense and 153 fire defense (734 total) the SoSaT does 638 with a regular 2 hand light attack. I calculated its motion value as 1.59720605355064 giving the 2h light attack the damage of 1372 against the defense of the holy bulwark 734 equals 638.

Also motion values seem to change as you upgrade a weapon. The Sword of Skin and Tooth does 182 on a 2 handed light attack giving it a motion value of 5.146067415730337 vs 1.59720605355064 at +10. I imagine this was done to compensate for enemy defenses since they are based on the armor defensive values of what enemies wear which doesn't change over the course of the game as oppose to them having a innate defense hand curated by the developers based on the zone. I got the same type of results testing Pieta's Sword at +0. The 2 handed light attack did 172 against the holy bulwark giving it a motion value of 5.465346534653465 at +0.

My math skills aren't the greatest so if I am wrong on this let me know.

How Runes factor in
Runes that are the same are additive ex 3 Ixon runes would add up to 30%. They are then multiplicative with other damage runes, rings, and pendants.

Here is an example of how damage a light attack of 682 would stack with the following runes and rings: 2 Ixon (10% each), 3 Gravix (10% each), Warrior's Claw (10%), Lucent Sword Ring (15%), Adyrqamar Ring (10%).

682*(1.2)*(1.3)*(1.1)*(1.15)*(1.1)= 1480 (My actual damage was 1481 and the game tends to round up so I'm about 0.1 points off). The game also handles player hp down to 3 decimal points so there might a decimal that is calculate against enemies but not shown. Overall it comes out to a whopping 217% damage increase.

Someone who is better at math might be able to put this in a more readable format.

Pendants and Rings
Warrior's Claw

Boosts physical damage and defense by 10%

Melchior's Ring

Boosts physical damage by 5%

Lucent Sword Ring

Boosts physical damage by 15%

Adyrqamar Ring

Boosts damage when two handing by 10%

Slinger's Ring

Boosts throwable damage by 10%

On the Pendant of Burden and Scornful Effigy thanks to u/andre-js

Found this on speedrun discord: Pendant of Burden - it's additive for 10% per status effect, so poisoned is 1.1 mult, poisoned+bleeding is 1.2 mult and so on.

Scornful Effigy is +25 damage, -50% health.

Runes
All tests done with +10 weapons and 75 in strength or agility or radiance.

Balago (Temporarily reduces a struck enemy's physical defense.)

A late game rune reduces the enemies defense every hit by 1-3% every hit. I was able to go up in damage by 11% in six hits.

Inferno rune

Ixon (Increase physical damage)

Increases physical damage by 10% and are additive.

Strength Rune

Gravix (Increases physical damage while two-handing.)

Increases physical damage by 10% and are additive.

Despite saying physical damage also increases element weapon damage. Tested with Pieta's weapon and it increased damage my 10% per rune. Thanks to u/SpoonyGundam for pointing that out.

According u/SpoonyGundam also increased the damage dealt when imbuing weapon with Radiant Weapon.

Strength Rune

Good to throw 3 on a the Jeffrey's Dagger if you two hand or don't use a shield for runes or parrying.

Hilvit (Increases Strength scaling.)

Rune that "significantly" boosts strength scaling.

From tests on four different weapons (Faithful Bludgeon, Sword of Skin and Tooth, Angel Axe and Tundra Axe) the bonus scales differently based of the weapon innate strength scaling.

Faithful Bludgeon damage increased by 9.5%

Sword of Skin and Tooth damage increased by8.5%

Angel Axe damage increased by 7%

Tundra Axe damage increased by 6%

Tested with Ancestor's Sword

With 1 rune damage increased by 7% from base attack.

With 2 runes damage increased by 13.5% from base attack.

With 3 runes damage increased by 20.4% from base attack.

Strength Rune

Ativ (Increases Strength scaling.)

Rune that "slightly" boosts strength scaling.

I imagine is has the same varied scaling as the Hilvit, but I've only tested it with one weapon so far.

Faithful Bludgeon damage increased by 5%

Strength Rune

Halsan (Increases physical damage. Reduces Strength attribute scaling.)

Seems to have the same varied scaling "bonus" as Hilvit and Ativ. I tested two weapons and they both loss different percentages of damage.

Faithful Bludgeon damage reduced by 13% damage.

Strength Rune

Vaus (Increase physical damage)

Tundra Axe damage increased physical damage by 2%.

Anvil Hammer damage increased physical damage by 2%.

Needs further testing of a higher scaling weapon to see if bonus is varied off of innate weapon scaling.

Agility Rune

Pertiax (Increases physical damage. Reduces Agility attribute scaling.)

Tundra Axe damage increased physical damage by 2%.

Needs further testing of a higher scaling weapon to see if bonus is varied off of innate weapon scaling.

Agility Rune

Hix (Increases Strength attribute scaling. / Reduces Agility attribute scaling.)

Tundra Axe damage increased physical damage by 6%.

Anvil Hammer damage increased physical damage by 4%.

Needs further testing of a higher scaling weapon to see if bonus is varied off of innate weapon scaling.

Agility Rune

Velox (Increases Agility scaling.)

Tested with Perdam Falchion

With 1 rune damage increased by 7.5% from base attack.

With 2 runes damage increased by 15.5% from base attack.

With 3 runes damage increased by 23% from base attack.

Agility Rune

Aelstrix ( Increasess damage of Ranged and Throwable Weapons. .)

Tested with enhanced lump hammer and enhanced bloody hatchet.

Boost damage by 10%.

Additive with itself

Strength Rune

Devoth ( Increases Radiant scaling. Slightly)

Tested with Pieta's Sword

With 1 rune damage increased by 6% from base attack.

With 2 runes damage increased by 12% from base attack.

With 3 runes damage increased by 18% from base attack.

Radiance Rune

Orimon (Increases Radiance attribute scaling. / Reduces Inferno attribute scaling. )

Tested with Pieta's Sword

With 1 rune damage increased by 9% from base attack.

With 2 runes damage increased by 18% from base attack.

With 3 runes damage increased by 27% from base attack.

Radiance Rune

Satus ( Increases holy damage. )

Tested with Pieta's Sword

With 1 rune damage increased by 7% from base attack.

With 2 runes damage increased by 13% from base attack.

With 3 runes damage increased by 20% from base attack.

Radiance Rune

Also tested Oritix thinking that maybe the description between it and Hix were mistakenly swapped and it actually improved strength scaling and hix improved agility scaling. Oddly enough they aren't unlike their inferno and radiant counterparts which do improve scaling for their own namesake and lowers the other.

Ammunition
Ammunition types that raises attack or increase the damage they take.

Accusing Spirit

Increased damage to enemies by 24% with the withered health included or by 20% after the withered health is gone.

Reduced damage taken by 12%.

Enhanced Accusing Spirit

Increased damage to enemies by 34% with the withered health included or 20% after the withered health is gone.

Reduced damage taken by 12%.

Banner Javelin

Increases damage dealt by 10%

Stacks with itself. Stacks are additive.

Enhanced Banner Javelin

Increases damage dealt by 10%

Stacks with itself. Stacks are additive.

Weapon Buff Spells and Salts
The first thing I would like to note is actual damage increase when using weapon buff spells depends on both the spellpower of the catalyst, your stats, and enemy defense and weakness to said buff. That means with spellpower and stats being equal the damage will still vary from enemy to enemy so this section isn't necessarily about how much weapon buff spells increase damage on their own but how they compare to the salt versions.

Faithful Bludgeon +10 with 75 strength. Base damage is 2 hand light attack: 1481 and 2 hand full charge heavy: 2849. Testing done against Holy Bulwark enemy (1481/2849).

Lacerating Weapon

Radiant Purifier Catalyst (18 Rad) - 1830/3519

Radiant Weapon

Radiant Weapon Radiant Purifier Catalyst (18 Rad) - 1577/3033

Poison Weapon

Putrid Child Catalyst (18 Rad/18 Inf) - 1822/3503

Infernal Weapon

Searing Accusation Catalyst (22 Inf) - 1585/3044

Bleed Salt

No increase to damage

Holy Salt

Damage is 1548/2976

Poison Salt

No Increase to damage.

Fire Salt

Damage is 1557/2993

Adyr's Rage

10% increase to physical damage


https://www.reddit.com/r/LordsoftheFallen/comments/17gtknb/even_more_testing_of_damage_scaling_with_rings_an/

[Broso]

Just a small correction regarding your example calculation:

"682*(1.2)*(1.3)*(1.1)*(1.15)*(1.1)= 1480 (My actual damage was 1481 and the game tends to round up so I'm about 0.1 points off). The game also handles player hp down to 3 decimal points so there might a decimal that is calculate against enemies but not shown. Overall it comes out to a whopping 217% damage increase."

217% is what you reach after the multipliers are applied. That is however not a 217% increase, it's a 117% increase from the 100% you were doing anyway.

[Crux]

Oh this isnt my work I found it on reddit and wanted to share, but correct away!