Game just feels cheap in how it kills you

[Savatage79]

I don't know I love all the souls games, demons souls still my all time favorite... I love the jedi survivor games, loving lies of p... But this game feels like it's tryin so hard to be difficult when they're forgetting that souls like games aren't mean to be artificially difficult they're meant to learn, and why am I feeling different about this game?

I think the game world looks gorgeous, incredible even.... But I absolutely hate playing this game. Anyone else in similar boat?

[Gameo]

They do use a lot of cheap design. Is what it is tho.

[Head Muesli]

I prefer my deaths to be expensive, you know? I hate cheap deaths, so frigg'n tacky.
Give me a true Balenciaga death darling.

[P1]

Originally posted by Savatage79:

I don't know I love all the souls games, demons souls still my all time favorite... I love the jedi survivor games, loving lies of p... But this game feels like it's tryin so hard to be difficult when they're forgetting that souls like games aren't mean to be artificially difficult they're meant to learn, and why am I feeling different about this game?

I think the game world looks gorgeous, incredible even.... But I absolutely hate playing this game. Anyone else in similar boat?

If you hate playing a game, don't play it and move onto a game that you do like. Playing games are meant to be fun and for entertainment, not something you "hate" doing.

[Savatage79]

Originally posted by P1:

Originally posted by Savatage79:

I don't know I love all the souls games, demons souls still my all time favorite... I love the jedi survivor games, loving lies of p... But this game feels like it's tryin so hard to be difficult when they're forgetting that souls like games aren't mean to be artificially difficult they're meant to learn, and why am I feeling different about this game?

I think the game world looks gorgeous, incredible even.... But I absolutely hate playing this game. Anyone else in similar boat?

If you hate playing a game, don't play it and move onto a game that you do like. Playing games are meant to be fun and for entertainment, not something you "hate" doing.

Sure. But it doesn't mean that there aren't things I like. It's never that cut and dry... Plus there are many games I disliked but eventually came to love.

It's just conversation bro, you don't think Im not playing stuff I enjoy like cyberpunk, Diablo etc? Course I am.. But I'm also tryin to find more enjoyment with a game I paid good money for

[Head Muesli]

Originally posted by P1:

Originally posted by Savatage79:

I don't know I love all the souls games, demons souls still my all time favorite... I love the jedi survivor games, loving lies of p... But this game feels like it's tryin so hard to be difficult when they're forgetting that souls like games aren't mean to be artificially difficult they're meant to learn, and why am I feeling different about this game?

I think the game world looks gorgeous, incredible even.... But I absolutely hate playing this game. Anyone else in similar boat?

If you hate playing a game, don't play it and move onto a game that you do like. Playing games are meant to be fun and for entertainment, not something you "hate" doing.

Oh I don't know, depending on my mood and chosen fashion, I might do nasty hateful things to myself for hours!
Disclaimer: only if I am complicit and I consent and have enough thumb tacks.

[LuckyRaphi]

Yes sometimes it's cheap but I don't think it's cheaper than the guy before renalla who parries and one shots you or how dark souls removes 50% of your HP when you die to the frogs. Or the under water holes on code vein that are almost invisible.

Just get used to it, you can counterplay every cheap trick the game throws at you. (You won't be pushed in the first area after pieta when you destroy every wood thing etc)

[tuznecote]

Not alone at all. Only because I am craving another soul-like game and love the graphics and world that I am hate-playing this thing. Every moment I am screaming at how poorly this game has been thought out when it comes to enemy placement.

I can only hope to god some sort of Scholars of the First Sin version comes out or a mod that literally rewrites the enemy placement.

Dudes, don't just sort some mobs in your next patch. Get rid of all mobs! Make that a new game plus. God have a "git good" mode if you must. Just sort out these bloody mobs.

[Unknownpony]

They tried too much to make it hard. But it's unfair hard, most of the time when you die you don't feel like it was your mistake but by some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like falling down cus every corner there is something which push you or enemies just gangrape you.
On other hand Bosses are a JOKE. There are so easy that almost every boss is killed on first try. Sometimes on second when i end up in boss arena with no health and no healing items.

[Savatage79]

Originally posted by Unknownpony:

They tried too much to make it hard. But it's unfair hard, most of the time when you die you don't feel like it was your mistake but by some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like falling down cus every corner there is something which push you or enemies just gangrape you.
On other hand Bosses are a JOKE. There are so easy that almost every boss is killed on first try. Sometimes on second when i end up in boss arena with no health and no healing items.

Well like what happens is I may have some struggle areas that I finally get thru.... Then after just wasting time dying and learning an area, I go and there are places where they basically force an instant death like being shoved off a ledge by a hidden enemy. Or that reaper dude spawning and just offing you instantly. I dunno I don't mind dying in a battle that I can see coming and learning where to position but random forced deaths on top of all the other ♥♥♥♥ feels like just time wasters.

I hate their philosophy is where I'm at mainly

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Markierer:

At the beginning I had the same feeling but now I adapted. It remembers me a lot to DS2 in a good way.

We all adapted, but that doesn't make the game any less cheap.

[Kyutaru]

Idk I think people just don't like practicing and expect to have a game where their natural ninja instincts can win by being good. Souls games aren't even hard though, they just require practice getting the timings down. Know what's hard? Geometry Dash is hard. Some levels like Tidal Wave you'd be lucky to get 1% completion on. But both games are all about mastering the timing and practicing till you get it. If you're always going into the fight not trying to learn anything new or practice a technique, you're basically leaving it up to RNG.

[tuznecote]

There is mastering gameplay and there is 100s of enemies flooding your space to the point you just flat-out runaway and not engage with half the game because its tedious.

[NJK]

Originally posted by Operator Domsch:

You´re not alone. This game is dumb in terms of difficulty, hordes of enemies in narrow places, those dumb bat things that can and will stunlock you to death.
Those things that heal enemies, or even worse, make them invulnerable, so you have to fiddle around with the lamp while the horde is going medieval on you. Yes you can lure them away, if they follow you. The umbral world, interesting at first, becomes quickly a nuisance. Bossfights are tedious if you lack reflexes (like i do after work).
The world, the art, the graphics, they are great though, but that alone doesn´t help.

Soulslike fan, complains when game is hard.

LOL

[one-room survival]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Operator Domsch:

You´re not alone. This game is dumb in terms of difficulty, hordes of enemies in narrow places, those dumb bat things that can and will stunlock you to death.
Those things that heal enemies, or even worse, make them invulnerable, so you have to fiddle around with the lamp while the horde is going medieval on you. Yes you can lure them away, if they follow you. The umbral world, interesting at first, becomes quickly a nuisance. Bossfights are tedious if you lack reflexes (like i do after work).
The world, the art, the graphics, they are great though, but that alone doesn´t help.

The bat things do not stun lock you to death, unless you sit there and block the 3 hits+the follow up. Here, try this, block one, parry the other, strike back, or don't block at all and dodge into it, doing a rolling attack as a follow up.

You don't need to lure anything away, how you play is completely on you, but what you've entailed here, is you "Accept" being hit, and consider it a problem. They give you all sorts of ways out of being hit, including hitting baack.

As for OP's claim of deaths feel cheap. I disagree. Every death I've earned ASIDE from a conflagrant casting spells at me from a mile away because I somehow triggered his aggro (Late game.) was my own fault.

It's really as simple as being able to look at your own actions and think about what you can do better. Annoying that a lot of people really just never did that.

[jburdick7]

Yeah, I do think there's some merit to this criticism about the game.

Outside of being invaded an absolutely stupid number of times in the past hour or two I played I've mostly been enjoying the game in spite of the mobs/enemy placement.

It's not "cheap" in the sense that enemies are hard - the movesets are very easy to learn and the game gives you a ton of tools for survivability. It's "cheap" in the sense that it doesn't feel rewarding or like you've overcome a huge challenge when you finish an area. There's no gratification, it's more like a sense of relief when you find a shortcut or vestige rather than feeling like you accomplished something.

Really the biggest knock I can give the game is that at a certain point it becomes more efficient to say "screw it" and run past EVERYTHING instead of exploring and interacting with this awesome world the devs have created. I don't even mean doing a boss run or whatever - I'm talking about even getting to a freaking shortcut or the next vestige. For how much crap you have to kill the reward just isn't there for how much time/energy you invest, both from an XP standpoint and from a general gameplay standpoint.

In short, it doesn't feel like the difficulty is designed to challenge the player and give them a sense of accomplishment. It feels like it's just there to be annoying and waste time. I'm sure some of it could be alleviated by adjusting enemy placement but there's a ton that needs to be fixed (mainly performance - it's still very bad and contributes to how annoying the game can feel to play at times).

It sucks because there is a really, really good souls-like buried in here. It just needed more time in the oven and a bit more thought put into WHY they wanted to make the game difficult instead of just making it difficult for difficulty's sake (which is largely what separates From's works from their imitators in my mind).