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That isn't to say that GK's combat is the picture of perfection. I'm only a few hours in but the difference born of a loot based game design is quite apparent with how many fights are attack spams, perhaps that'll change with more enemy types and more momentum abilities.
I'm personally having trouble with the readability of the warnings (the somewhat hazy white melee and ranged aiming) especially with effects like smoke obscuring the view. I'm hoping they'll add an option for bolder warnings in their accessibility settings alongside things like colourblind options.
Speaking to your point about responsiveness however, so far I've not had an issue with that at all finding it instead to be quite responsive both in doing commands and doing them how I want them to be executed.
In Gotham Knights it's more button mashing. Characters feel sluggish. Ranged attacks often miss their target.
And then there is also a design flaw. You use Right trigger to grab an opponent. But later in the game, Batgirl earns the ability to use the rope to pull opponents closer from a distance, this action is also activated by the right trigger. 2 different actions, same button. Grabbing an opponent for interrogation becomes very hard to do.
I am happy that they didnt copy Batmans combat system verbatim. We already have 3 almost completely identical batman games I see no need for a copy clone 4th. Given that batman is not even in the game it makes even more sense to try something new.
Both ran like crap when they were first released too. A lot of Arkham Knight fans simply do not want to remember or choose to ignore that fact.
Well. First and foremost the Gotham Knight's developers did indeed make Batman: Arkham Origins. They may not have been making the mainline games in the core trilogy but they certainly were very, very much involved in the larger Arkham franchise.
Second. It is absolutely relevant to compare the two. Gotham Knights may not be part of the "Arkhamverse" but it is very, very obvious that the developers were using their experience from making Arkham Origins as a creative touchstone. You can see Arkham's influence throughout Gotham Knights and not just in the general sense that they use the same Batman intellectual property.
For some reason, there is this thing I have noticed with a certain subset of Gotham Knights fanbase where there is this aggressively defensive reaction to any comparison to the Arkham games. This is kinda silly. It is absolutely clear that WB games was marketing this to Arkham fans (even if not as a direct part of the series) in the same way that it is clear that the developers were using Arkham as a creative starting point for certain aspects of the game.
Here is the thing. Gotham Knights is going to get compared to Arkham (and not always favorably) because the Arkham series got a lot of things right the first time. Gotham Knights may not be the worst game in the world or anything like that but it does feel like the developers took the Arkham formula as a starting point and clumsily added a bunch of bizarre loot/elemental attack mechanics. In the process, it kinda looks like Arkham from a distance but it plays more like a generic loot based action RPG.
It isn't unfair to say that Gotham Knights would have been a better, more successful game had it done what the Arkham series did and focus more on immersing the player in the "feel" of being a Batman/"Bat-family" character. A lot of Arkham's DNA is in Gotham Knights but not where it desperately needed it.
its obvious its the team that made arkham: origins, also arkham: orgins also had issues as well with their style of game. Orgin was a stutterfest, but alot of game wasn't bad but it's core had alot of issues, never forget. You see its layering in GK but not the smoothing open world, but shows in the story.
The worst thing in GK if they learned anything from the success of arkham series is you "good flow of gameplay" then "good flow of combat". While most of the game flows fine parts of it to a point flows like hot garbage and ruins the experience. The game has a horrible "shader cache" system and the "locked tutorials/cut scenes" throw the game for loops and then creates jarring experience that you have to fight back to reorientate yourself back to stable position. If the game stutters due "area not being loaded" or "particle effects" it ruins combat/traversal for the player.
Alot of complaints come from the "open world", the open world won't "pre-cache" meaning meaning you have multiple "load areas" or a "limited pre-cached view range with loaded objects". If it isn't the way the "layered the open world set up" its "bad instance management", Eg you see this in loading the crimes in area with RNG objectives. How they dealing player character/npcs/enemies is crazy odd to and at times it feels like their place in load order or spawning in certain areas is janky at best. You see a clear Character/npc/enemy that can "noclip" through assets or objects, it could be a "sync issue", it can create an "invul state" for your character or some enemies.
Yes they are patching the game but parts are mess honestly and this comes from a player that has to replay the story due losing my save to it being consumed by the cloud. Because my local save got corrupted to as well, not even fallout has this issue and it uses the same system. I lost 158hrs and the recipes/mats with it and I wasn't in NG+ yet with maxed out chars with skills unlocked.
I don't think a counter kill the game or flow of combat, you either counter or dodge basically. A counter system along with "better stun mechanics" would be better. EG you have to "brute force combat mechanics" doesn't make a good combat system, end-game is champions that dodge alot or block.
I survive alot better because of my my history playing arkham games previous, you shouldn't have to "brute force " combat and encourage your players to use said "mechanics". "Brute forcing combat" is usually just response if its buggy encounter or enemy type. If you have every faced end-game champion talons, ninja/talons and the league assassins. you will realize they work mechanically right and stuns work well.
In the most literal sense, yes. They are two separate titles. Even more. Gotham Knights isn't (technically) in the "Arkhamverse" series even though it draws heavily from it.
Here is something to consider and for the sake of avoiding fights about comparisons, let's frame this in the context of the (somewhat recent) Marvel's Avengers game. When they first announced that game, a fanbase that was VERY hungry for a title that really taps into the Marvel comic/film universe got pretty excited. The idea of playing as the more popular Avengers characters in a game that really makes use of the property was pretty exciting. Despite some negative press and controversy during the lead-up to release, a lot of Marvel/Avengers fans were hoping it would be a solid release.
When it finally did come out, it was as if you could hear the collective "this is it?" in the air. Marvel's Avengers did have a reasonably decent single player storyline but it was completely undermined by generic live service loot/elemental ability/RPG mechanics that did absolutely nothing to actually support the whole "You are playing as the Avengers" premise. Instead of feeling like you are bouncing between playing beloved Marvel characters, you just felt like you were going through the motions in a generic, repetitive game where most of the mechanics had nothing to do with The Avengers at all.
In a way, it was like asking for a Avengers game for Christmas but your parents or grandparents ended up getting you a Avengers Pinball game instead. It has the licensed characters and the overall Avengers property but the gameplay does very little to reflect what a Avengers fan would have actually wanted.
Bringing this back to Gotham Knights. It is hard to not think of The Avengers when playing it. The developers had all the elements they needed to make a convincing, interesting "Bat-family" centric title but instead of doing what Rocksteady very obviously did with the Arkham games (and what Insomniac did with Spider-Man and Eidos-Montreal did with Guardians of the Galaxy) where they very clearly focused on making sure the mechanics actually reflect and contribute to the player's immersion in the character/world, they took the Marvel Avengers route where they thinly applied a coat of "Bat-family" paint on a generic loot based, pseudo-RPG, borderline live service framework. I never really FEEL like I am playing a game that actually cares about conveying the characters and the setting through mechanics and story mission structure.
People are going to compare Gotham Knights to the Arkham series because they are Batman/Bat-family fans that want a gameplay experience that actually conveys those characters effectively. This is why the Arkham series was so popular and such a big deal when it first started. It was one of the first times where a developer went all-in on designing a game based on a licensed property that actually felt like that licensed property inside and out. The whole "It makes you feel like Batman" line wasn't really just a meme. It meant that the developers put consistent focus on putting the player in the shoes of the character and truly immersing them in it via game mechanics.
Gotham Knights just isn't that kind of thing. It wants to be but it just isn't. The basic concept of a "Bat-family" game deserved something better. Something (as controversial as this will sadly be seen as) more like the Arkham series because the Arkham series got it right. It set a formula that actually works really, really well for the Batman property and it would have worked equally well for a "Bat-family" game.
Fear toxin and Joker-Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease really did a number on him.
Let's kinda break this down a bit.
1.) Combat. This is the big one. The combat is technically different in that the developers were clearly leaning into a action-RPG/loot/crafting system (in a very Marvel's Avengers kind of flavor) but it is trying to cram that all into a presentation that evokes the Arkham style melee focused combat. The combat is where this game differs from the Arkham series the most but not really in an effective or even terribly good way.
2.) Gliding/on-foot traversal. This is one of the areas where it is extremely obvious that they were adding elements in to evoke the Arkham titles. After playing this game for a bit, I had the feeling that they originally didn't have any kind of quick on-foot traversal planned out (via grapnel hook, magic, cape gliding, etc) but added in a sort of half-hearted attempt at it because they knew that players would be coming from the Arkham titles with some pretty reasonable expectations.
3.) The "Bat bike". Another obvious element borrowed from the Arkham series (at least Arkham Knight) but like the grapnel element, it feels VERY undercooked in a way that very much comes off as something they added because they wanted it to evoke memories of the Arkham games with fans.
The big overarching thing here is that while there are absolutely going to be differences on a technical level, it is still pretty clear that this game was designed to appeal to Arkham fans on a surface level and then when it was finally released and didn't do so great in reviews, now the narrative is "Oh, but you can't compare them!" Well. Yeah. We absolutely can and we absolutely should. We need to be asking questions like "Why try to copy certain elements over from the Arkham series without actually understanding why those elements worked so well?"