Anyone else tired of Ultra instinct enemies?

[Hexagoros]

Anyone else a little tired how late game there are like half a dozen enemy types that either have a 'constant' or 'occasional' Ultra instinct-like ability to dodge everything?

Just asking.

[King of Evil]

It does get annoying but it also changes up the pace. I'm more annoyed at the guys who block everything with their elbows.

[SKN The LISPer]

Grandfather Nurgle님이 먼저 게시:

SKN The LISPer님이 먼저 게시:

Nowhere is this a rule, nor law. Video games are entertainment, entertainment does not necessarily need to be, or mean fun (though it often is).

But in anycase, you're not the arbiter of what is, or isn't fun, and I'm certain many do enjoy this aspect, even though you do not, even if games were "supposed to be fun (which again, nowhere is this an established requirement for definition of video game)".

Did you really write this? Like this is such a poor troll. Come on man, you can do better. LOL.

There's a lot of video games made for the express purpose of NOT being fun, or even enjoyable. Pathologic 1 (and most of Icepick Lodge's games) is one of the best examples of this, it's existance is a philosophical piece, but it's still a video game, and I'm sure there's plenty of people that find it fun, even if it wasn't designed to be so (rather opposite, it's designed to wear you down and be frustrating).


Most games made by AAA studios (especially AAA published by Warner Bros) exist to make money, your enjoyment or 'fun', is secondary to that goal at all times (why we got ♥♥♥♥ like Shadow of War, that sold out enjoyable gameplay for quick monitization).

[anarchy]

Yeah personally the combat is just irritating to me. The ranged heavy attack is MEANT to stop their dodge spam, but the second you go to use it; a. they can still dodge to the side, b. the game decides the attack should target anything EXCEPT the thing you need to hit, c. some random other enemy decides it's time to take a swing and by the time you avoid that the dodger has recovered and is dodging again, d. you just take a hit because the animation for ranged heavy attacks is so damn long that enemies can start and finish an attack during it.

We've had so many superhero games with so many variations on this similar style of freeflow. This is the only one where I feel like I spend the entire time using the right moves to break invincibility phases that I don't actually get to just punch anyone except the trash fillers that go down in one hit anyway, Legitimately, why do all the heroes have a perk for +1 hit in their combo when no enemy either can take that many hits, or will take that many hits without going back to immunity.

[Army of Optimists]

Hexagoros님이 먼저 게시:

In Arkham City, for example, you had NInjas that did in fact dodge your hits. But the answer to these enemies wasn't "stop the combat and hold Q," it was to dodge and counter. It kept the combat flowing - it 'felt' like a brawl.

Rather than feeling like a brawl, these enemies stop the combat in its tracks, and serve to frustrate - because you can't counter. You can only dodge. You 'cannot' fight back without stopping to "Hold Q." And there are like half a dozen enemies that do this one, singular gimmick.

What enemy like this can you not dodge and counter? The two most dodge-happy enemies in the game, Talons and Assassins, both get knocked on their butts by a proper dodge and counter Perfect Attack.

You don't "have to hold Q". You can dodge and counter them. You can use any AOE Momentum Ability. If they're low enough, any but the Assassin can just be grabbed and punched in the face.

Heavy Ranged is the most straightforward way to get some hits in, but there are a number of other ways to open them up to attacks.

[Dootslayer]

Hexagoros님이 먼저 게시:

Anawer님이 먼저 게시:

So you are telling us that it is fun to constantly smash LMB but it is not fun holding Q for a bit longer?

For me, the enemies are no more annoying than the others. I just need to figure out how to combine attacks and they fall easily. Only enemy I'm still yet to master are Godmothers their attack pattern is something else :-D I still have fun dealing with them.

I mean, we can pretend that games haven't done melee combat much better than this, and that these Ultra Instinct enemies are somehow 'fun' to fight, or an 'innovative' take on melee.

But to do that we have to 'also' pretend that very similar games such as this list right here, do not exist....
Arkham Asylum
Arkham City
Arkham Origins (which WB Montreal made)
Arkham Knight
Spider Man
Shadow of Mordor 1
Shadow of Mordor 2
And others.

All of these games kept very similar "Arkham-like" combat flowing, peppering in 'tough' enemies, but without relying on these kinds of silly, un-fun gimmicks.

In Arkham City, for example, you had NInjas that did in fact dodge your hits. But the answer to these enemies wasn't "stop the combat and hold Q," it was to dodge and counter. It kept the combat flowing - it 'felt' like a brawl.

Rather than feeling like a brawl, these enemies stop the combat in its tracks, and serve to frustrate - because you can't counter. You can only dodge. You 'cannot' fight back without stopping to "Hold Q." And there are like half a dozen enemies that do this one, singular gimmick.

Are you seriously telling me that's fun? Especially when compared to that list of games that did pretty much this same type of combat just miles better?

Arkham games never thad "tough" enemies.

[Hexagoros]

Army of Optimists님이 먼저 게시:

Hexagoros님이 먼저 게시:

In Arkham City, for example, you had NInjas that did in fact dodge your hits. But the answer to these enemies wasn't "stop the combat and hold Q," it was to dodge and counter. It kept the combat flowing - it 'felt' like a brawl.

Rather than feeling like a brawl, these enemies stop the combat in its tracks, and serve to frustrate - because you can't counter. You can only dodge. You 'cannot' fight back without stopping to "Hold Q." And there are like half a dozen enemies that do this one, singular gimmick.

What enemy like this can you not dodge and counter? The two most dodge-happy enemies in the game, Talons and Assassins, both get knocked on their butts by a proper dodge and counter Perfect Attack.

You don't "have to hold Q". You can dodge and counter them. You can use any AOE Momentum Ability. If they're low enough, any but the Assassin can just be grabbed and punched in the face.

Heavy Ranged is the most straightforward way to get some hits in, but there are a number of other ways to open them up to attacks.

Quick correction, League of Shadows Assassins 'can' be hit without Holding Q.

But again, why is this gimmick on something like half a dozen enemies in this game?

Mobster Champion Grenadiers need Ultra Instinct? Seriously? In what universe does a Mobster with a grenade launcher dodge better than a League of Shadows Ninja?

Drone Master Champions need Ultra Instinct? How are they moving like that with the amount of gear they're wearing anyway? It's just stupid.

Base level Talons 'really' need always on Ultra Instinct? Really? It's not enough to have the other two types of Talons with Ultra Instinct?

Is this gimmick 'so much fun' or 'so innovative' that it needs to prop up in almost every encounter?

[Army of Optimists]

Without the "gimmick" as you call it, the game would only be mashing attack and dodging when you see a prompt for it. It'd be Arkham combat, which got stale and boring back in City. I have no idea why people still rave about it in games. The whole point of the system was "Batman is so good at combat, he basically auto-plays every encounter for you." It was not a great system, but a fun distraction between navigating the stealth sections and environment of Arkham Asylum. Go play Mad Max to see the Arkham combat stripped of the Batman license and you find out it's really dull after a few hours of punch-counter-punch.

Gotham Knights is more of an action-RPG, so it really needs more challenge to the combat because it's all you do in the game. Having to break dodge-chains or armor is part of that. It's not a gimmick. It's a mechanic to elevate the combat beyond mashing the attack button to beat everything.

[Fang]

The only thing that slightly triggers me is when enemies block Red Hood's bullets with their elbows or the sides of their guns.

That's just... ridiculous. xD

[Lamoi]

ACDCnLedZeppelin님이 먼저 게시:

Id님이 먼저 게시:

Git Gud

I am so sick of seeing people post this, like move on. Not everyone is good at games hence why you can choose the difficulty no shame in bumping down how hard a game is. Sometimes people want to have fun and not feel under immense pressure to do good.

Yep it’s not helpful.

[Jacksunt]

Hexagoros님이 먼저 게시:

Escapist님이 먼저 게시:

They don't dodge everything. You're meant to use your ranged power attack on them. It knocks the nimble ones down so you can beat on them.

Yeah, and I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tired of it.

It's moronic BS that makes the battles frustrating behind belief late game.

I think the devs forgot that video games are supposed to be fun.

bro just start ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this aint arkham and leave lol

[Lamoi]

I have not gone up against these enemies types yet.

They do sound frustrating. I agree it’s a delicate balance, we want challenge but it always needs to remain fun and ultimately satisfying.

I’m playing on HARD. No HUD.

And must admit, I am finding fighting the big Heavy mini boss type enemies slightly tedious. I accept in my mind that they are meant to be tougher.
But still in contrast when fighting the little guys — I took out a couple of purse snatchers in one alley way when playing last night, and the fight was a … delight!
I competently and skilfully kicked their asses. It was nice to have an easy fight.

Maybe I need to lower the difficulty! Lol

But I feel confident that once I start getting to grips with the RPG mechanics I will be able to use these to create advantages, exploiting their weaknesses, and increasing my damage output.

I would say this I do think Heavies spawn too frequently… it’s difficult to find a random crime where they’re not in the mix.

[Reizo Ryuu]

PSA, batgirl has the no flinch heavy attack skill, so you can just tank their hit and keep attacking them. Dunno if the others have something similar
Tonja jackhammer also 100% hits them and batarang barrage will also hit them and stop them from dodging.
tl;dr use batgirl.

[OKJaye]

"Weakness / Most of which can be found in the in-game database (Hard Difficulty)

League of Shadows (& Man Bat) = Fire
Owls = Ice
Drone bois = Ice & Electric
GCPD = Ice

Honestly from my testing Ice works well with just about anyone especially the fast bois. Man bat can be abused with fire & range attacks. Drones explode if drone master is charged with electric. & a lot of enemy dodging can be countered with Heavy attacks or mixing attack variation in general (or even just pausing until they get ready to walk somewhere then hitting them). You should be able to open up dodgers with momentum attacks as well. ( I can really only speak for nightwing )"

Also take things slow when you start feeling ganged up on, pick your shots & dodge accordingly. example League of Shadows, Listen for the POOF of smoke when they reappear to start your dodge.

[Fang]

Rikazuchi님이 먼저 게시:

"Weakness / Most of which can be found in the in-game database (Hard Difficulty)

League of Shadows (& Man Bat) = Fire
Owls = Ice
Drone bois = Ice & Electric
GCPD = Ice

Honestly from my testing Ice works well with just about anyone especially the fast bois. Man bat can be abused with fire & range attacks. Drones explode if drone master is charged with electric. & a lot of enemy dodging can be countered with Heavy attacks or mixing attack variation in general (or even just pausing until they get ready to walk somewhere then hitting them). You should be able to open up dodgers with momentum attacks as well. ( I can really only speak for nightwing )"

I find Poison to be the most OP. It doesn't work on Talons and other undead, but against living targets it absolutely meeeeeeeeeeelt their HP bar. I got poison on Nightwing's ranged, and his 3-darts burst fire just stacks it like crazy. I've seen heavies go down in 4-5 seconds of poison. Just poison a bunch of enemies and watch them die one after the other.

[OKJaye]

Fang님이 먼저 게시:

If by living targets you mean like "the freaks" then from my exp they get owned by almost all. (except elec/its not that great on them)

Poison: adds DOT

Concussions: makes them stand still (allows continuous hits)

Electric: stuns them quickly with a chance to shock nearby bad bois & explode floating drones

Fire: adds DOT, staggers them while they try to put it out(if you punch them they break stagger, but still burn)

Ice: Freeze enemy in place(allows 1 hit), or hit them while frozen for Ice breaking damage & I THINK the ice breaking causes an explosion to nearby bad bois (Ice...Ice is pretty amazin)

..................................
This game Needs! quick Loadout switching.
I wear the highest Defense suit(no element) I can craft (sort by defense/damage in workbench) & carry around 1 type of each element (expect poison personally) for both Melee and Range.