Where are all the civilians?

[wasabi™]

When we saw the very first trailer they put out there were a ton of cars and people around which finally gave me some hope that they were going to take time to innovate and make it a living, breathing city.

However in all trailers since that it looks so lifeless and the only people we see are the same old recycled enemies. Not one trailer shows civilians of any kind and I get Rocksteady never did it and that Arkham Knight didn't have the best excuse in the world for there not to be any civilians but Rocksteady never intended to implement that in the first place when they clearly did plus they didn't even have the technical limitations excuse that Rocksteady did considering how old those games are.

It just screams of having high ambitions which were never fully met and the more I see about this game the more concerned I get. I hope I am totally wrong and it turns out amazing but we'll just have to wait and see.

Plus that's not even getting into all the lootboxes, exclusive skins and perks, having to "reach level x to fight these enemies" kind of vibes they got going.

[Q1]

Every Batman related property first has to come up with a reason there's basically nobody on the streets. Arkham City it was because part of the town was a prison, Arkham Knight because Scarecrow threatened everyone into evacuation.

I can only assume people have left huge sections of town to the criminals gone wild after Batman was gone.

[wasabi™]

Originally posted by Q1:

Every Batman related property first has to come up with a reason there's basically nobody on the streets. Arkham City it was because part of the town was a prison, Arkham Knight because Scarecrow threatened everyone into evacuation.

I can only assume people have left huge sections of town to the criminals gone wild after Batman was gone.

Yeah I get where your going with that and I am confident they will come up with a 'reason' for why there is no-one around (despite obviously removing them from the game based on the very first Gameplay trailer) but I feel you are missing my point.

Rocksteady had a pretty good excuse for there being no civilians in their games considering it was a technical limitation at the time. Arkham City is over a decade old now and Knight is over 7 years. I totally get why Rocksteady had those limitations at the time but there isn't an excuse for it now.

Since Arkham Knight we got games that proved it can be done like Insomniac's Spider-man which came out four years ago that have littered the bustling streets with cars and people going about their day since they were clearly able to do it without those hurdles Rocksteady had and you're not even supposed to be on the ground most of the time to begin with. It honestly feels like a completely lifeless city right now and is a major disappointment.

If you look back to the very first trailer with the Mr Freeze battle you can see all these cars and civilians going about their business but every single trailer they have released since then now just have a bland lifeless city without anyone around, it's a significant difference.

I mean the main reason most people even wanted a day / night cycle to begin with was for the city to actually feel lively and lived in.

Not sure why you say ever Batman property has to have a reason why no one is around? The movies, comics, animated features and even the Telltale Batman game clearly show civilians and cars going around about the place. Gotham may be a dangerous place to live in but it's supposed to be a city...a city which has an actual population of people in the millions that live their lives in it.

[Player 1]

I don't really mind TBH.
Altough a little granny to run over there , another guy to smack for a random reason here, could be nice

[HerculeHolmes]

They did it for Spider-Man in New York, why not for Gotham?

[Devil Dog]

State of Decay 2 is full of civilians

[Anotérapix]

Probably sleeping, because somebody needs to go to work in the morning...

[wasabi™]

Originally posted by Anotérapix:

Probably sleeping, because somebody needs to go to work in the morning...

Have you ever lived or visited any city in the world? Have you noticed you can find at least some people and cars going about their business 24/7 which includes in the middle of the night since there are people that do work night shifts. Gotham has a population of around 10 million people so it's not a stretch to imagine that there would be at least 10% of that around in the middle of the night for whatever reason.

Also the game has a literal day/night cycle so even if you want to use the argument that every person apart from criminals are in bed that would not explain why there aren't any people or cars around during the day.

It's not particularly that hard to implement like it was over 10 years ago in Arkham city and even 7 years ago with Arkham Knight, as mentioned before Insomniacs Spider-man game had a dense population of people living their lives and that game is over 4 years old now. The only time we saw any civilians about was in the very first trailer, the one with the Mr Freeze fight but every single trailer after has had them all removed from the gameplay entirely which is not a good sign.

I just want the city to feel vibrant and actually lived in and the recent trailers do not fill me with any confidence that they will actually achieve it.

[Arkham99]

Originally posted by wasabi:

Have you ever lived or visited any city in the world? Have you noticed you can find at least some people and cars going about their business 24/7 which includes in the middle of the night since there are people that do work night shifts

seems as though they've made an effort for it to atleast "appear" like this, but it almost makes it seem even more glaring of a problem... for example, they show some thugs on a rooftop in one of the videos... all around in the immediate vicinity there's lights on in the office windows... yet no people, shadows or otherwise which make it look more lifeless than ever... you'd think somebody would notice some armed gunmen outside their window at some point, no?... if they're hiding, don't you think that they'd atleast call the police then?...

there's obviously technical limitations (maybe budget limitations is more appropriate) to making the city appear to be more life like... there really should be atleast a 24-hour store open somewhere, or someone opening up their window and yelling "keep it down out there!"... their saving grace is that, everyone is hiding from the Super Villains that are rampaging the city... and I suppose that if this were real life, most would hide or flee...:-)

[NIGHTWING]

If you watch the trailers, you will see civilians walking around. The one where Red Hood is chasing the truck has civilians.

[wasabi™]

Originally posted by Arkham99:

Originally posted by wasabi:

Have you ever lived or visited any city in the world? Have you noticed you can find at least some people and cars going about their business 24/7 which includes in the middle of the night since there are people that do work night shifts

seems as though they've made an effort for it to atleast "appear" like this, but it almost makes it seem even more glaring of a problem... for example, they show some thugs on a rooftop in one of the videos... all around in the immediate vicinity there's lights on in the office windows... yet no people, shadows or otherwise which make it look more lifeless than ever... you'd think somebody would notice some armed gunmen outside their window at some point, no?... if they're hiding, don't you think that they'd atleast call the police then?...

there's obviously technical limitations (maybe budget limitations is more appropriate) to making the city appear to be more life like... there really should be atleast a 24-hour store open somewhere, or someone opening up their window and yelling "keep it down out there!"... their saving grace is that, everyone is hiding from the Super Villains that are rampaging the city... and I suppose that if this were real life, most would hide or flee...:-)

I'm just really hoping they don't go for another 'everybody's in curfew' like in Arkham Origins. I get it, there was a lot of technical limitations back then but there's no real excuse for it anymore and it clearly was a goal they intended to achieve by their first trailer.

A 24 hour store would help, plus just seeing a flicker of daily life in Gotham for once would really help in breathing life into the game. Tbh I'm hoping for the best with this game but I have had my expectations dramatically lowered with the more i've seen from it.

[Arkham99]

Originally posted by wasabi:

just seeing a flicker of daily life in Gotham for once would really help in breathing life into the game

there's another video floating around out there where a civilian is cheering on Nightwing during a street fight... they don't appear to be connected to the action and could just happened to be on their way home from work or something... these little things, if more exist, are a glimmer of hope...:-)

[wasabi™]

Originally posted by Arkham99:

Originally posted by wasabi:

just seeing a flicker of daily life in Gotham for once would really help in breathing life into the game

there's another video floating around out there where a civilian is cheering on Nightwing during a street fight... they don't appear to be connected to the action and could just happened to be on their way home from work or something... these little things, if more exist, are a glimmer of hope...:-)

Yeah true that does give me a little hope. Can't really judge it too much until the game is actually out. I really hope there is more too it with stuff like that especially since we will have a whole day/night cycle in this one.

[Martoq]

Originally posted by wasabi:

Originally posted by Arkham99:

there's another video floating around out there where a civilian is cheering on Nightwing during a street fight... they don't appear to be connected to the action and could just happened to be on their way home from work or something... these little things, if more exist, are a glimmer of hope...:-)

Yeah true that does give me a little hope. Can't really judge it too much until the game is actually out. I really hope there is more too it with stuff like that especially since we will have a whole day/night cycle in this one.

Day time is spent in the Belfry planning for the Knights night activities. So most of the main gameplay is at night.

[Arkham99]

Originally posted by Martoq:

we will have a whole day/night cycle in this one.

Day time is spent in the Belfry planning for the Knights night activities. So most of the main gameplay is at night. [/quote]

haven't found a whole lotta information on this... a mission or two in daylight would be nice, one without the costumes and incognito... Gotham looked great in the 'Arkham Knight' Nightwing DLC during daylight, but it was just a tease... you're indoors for most of it and it may as well have been at night... they would have to make the city more active though to be able to pull it off well...:-)

[Citizen Cook]

It’s a bit embarrassing after Spiderman filled New York with civilians and traffic.