Цитата допису The Apogostick:

Also is there any plans to reduce friendly-fire damage from defensive buildings? As it's currently very easy to kill harvesters by simply flying next to them and having the HQ, outposts & turrets shoot the Harv, as they'll still lock on to a wasp/dragonfly even if they are out of view on the other side of it.

Honestly most of the damage to harvesters doesn't even come from the aliens themselves, it's the fact they can hide in the machinery and cause all the AI units to attack their own vehicle, which depending on which vehicles/buildings are nearby can be A LOT of damage.

Very true, the plan is to have the AI only shoot with appropriate weaponry - calculate whether they would in fact inflict more damage on a friend rather than the foe and only use lighter weapons. For example Hover Tank would only use MG, Rocket Launcher nothing, etc.

Цитата допису Dram:

Цитата допису The Apogostick:

Also is there any plans to reduce friendly-fire damage from defensive buildings? As it's currently very easy to kill harvesters by simply flying next to them and having the HQ, outposts & turrets shoot the Harv, as they'll still lock on to a wasp/dragonfly even if they are out of view on the other side of it.

Honestly most of the damage to harvesters doesn't even come from the aliens themselves, it's the fact they can hide in the machinery and cause all the AI units to attack their own vehicle, which depending on which vehicles/buildings are nearby can be A LOT of damage.

Very true, the plan is to have the AI only shoot with appropriate weaponry - calculate whether they would in fact inflict more damage on a friend rather than the foe and only use lighter weapons. For example Hover Tank would only use MG, Rocket Launcher nothing, etc.

Im still of the mind that the Harvester should just have *more* and *better* weaponry with better coverage angles, seeing a crab run to a harvester out in the open, clear sight lines, no dunes, and the Harvester, even with firing angles, cant kill the CRAB before it reaches it, let alone in a reasonable amount of time...is kinda silly, as the Harv is in the "Ultra Heavy Vehicle Factory" yet is worse at defending itself than if I stuck a single rifleman on the back.

Цитата допису Humble Techpriest:

Цитата допису Dram:

Very true, the plan is to have the AI only shoot with appropriate weaponry - calculate whether they would in fact inflict more damage on a friend rather than the foe and only use lighter weapons. For example Hover Tank would only use MG, Rocket Launcher nothing, etc.

Im still of the mind that the Harvester should just have *more* and *better* weaponry with better coverage angles, seeing a crab run to a harvester out in the open, clear sight lines, no dunes, and the Harvester, even with firing angles, cant kill the CRAB before it reaches it, let alone in a reasonable amount of time...is kinda silly, as the Harv is in the "Ultra Heavy Vehicle Factory" yet is worse at defending itself than if I stuck a single rifleman on the back.

It's jsut part of the strategy aspect to protect your assets with other vehicles.

Цитата допису element303:

Цитата допису Humble Techpriest:

Im still of the mind that the Harvester should just have *more* and *better* weaponry with better coverage angles, seeing a crab run to a harvester out in the open, clear sight lines, no dunes, and the Harvester, even with firing angles, cant kill the CRAB before it reaches it, let alone in a reasonable amount of time...is kinda silly, as the Harv is in the "Ultra Heavy Vehicle Factory" yet is worse at defending itself than if I stuck a single rifleman on the back.

It's jsut part of the strategy aspect to protect your assets with other vehicles.

As somebody who has played RTS games since childhood, I would be inclined to agree, if it wasn't for the fact that in comparison Harvesters in other games are:

Basic Vehicle Factory (or emplaced structures, looking at you Ashes of the Singularity and Supreme Commander), fairly cheap, and in, for example, Command and Conquer, a Harvester vs Infantry is such a one sided engagement in the favor of the harvester it is almost criminal, especailly with the battle miners (Red Alert 2 Soviets and Yuri, Command and Conquer 3 GDI) who are capable of not only defending themselves against infantry (or light vehicle raiders for GDI Zocom in Kanes Wrath), but being an emergency rush option.

But what is important is they are cheap, fairly resilient, and in many cases can defend themselves from any cheap early game chaff rushes, and the counters to the early game rushes they cant counter is easily produced....all without risks of friendly fire.

However the Silica Harvester is in the Ultra Heavy Vehicle Factory.....needless to say an investment and something you will not have early, it has respectable armor (not HP, it's HP is actually quite low in my experience, particularly against things that actually can damage it), it struggles to path to the nodes (something no real other harvester manages in core RTS games), and despite being a Battle Harvester (as it has two turrets) it is vulnerable to free respawning units, not just due to how the firing angles being awful, but the guns used....im pretty sure the scout SMG is better than the Harvester MG turrets, and sending it through the car wash WILL deal additional damage to it...In a game with no repairs. Its a lot of hassle for a vehicle that is way too frail, way too big (which is ultimately a stylistic choice), and way too offensively weak, on top of being dumb (AI wise) and slow....which has to make this the worst Harvester I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with in a game, compare that to Shrimps who are.....the complete opposite, they feel like the harvesters from Starcraft.

Its a difference I can't wrap my head around as a game design decision. Defending eco is one thing, but normally you can establish a good static defensive perimeter around it (you cannot as Balt fields are consumed in only a couple trips), and other units are hardly likely to friendly fire the harvester in good RTS games whereas in Silica.....great.....greaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Its fine when its just defending against crabs, with scouts/rifles, but gets significantly more annoying when better raiders show up, which is a problem....because of how balterium fields and harvesters themselves work, yaaaaaaaaaaaay.

Цитата допису Humble Techpriest:

Цитата допису element303:

It's jsut part of the strategy aspect to protect your assets with other vehicles.

As somebody who has played RTS games since childhood, I would be inclined to agree, if it wasn't for the fact that in comparison Harvesters in other games are:

Basic Vehicle Factory (or emplaced structures, looking at you Ashes of the Singularity and Supreme Commander), fairly cheap, and in, for example, Command and Conquer, a Harvester vs Infantry is such a one sided engagement in the favor of the harvester it is almost criminal, especailly with the battle miners (Red Alert 2 Soviets and Yuri, Command and Conquer 3 GDI) who are capable of not only defending themselves against infantry (or light vehicle raiders for GDI Zocom in Kanes Wrath), but being an emergency rush option.

But what is important is they are cheap, fairly resilient, and in many cases can defend themselves from any cheap early game chaff rushes, and the counters to the early game rushes they cant counter is easily produced....all without risks of friendly fire.

However the Silica Harvester is in the Ultra Heavy Vehicle Factory.....needless to say an investment and something you will not have early, it has respectable armor (not HP, it's HP is actually quite low in my experience, particularly against things that actually can damage it), it struggles to path to the nodes (something no real other harvester manages in core RTS games), and despite being a Battle Harvester (as it has two turrets) it is vulnerable to free respawning units, not just due to how the firing angles being awful, but the guns used....im pretty sure the scout SMG is better than the Harvester MG turrets, and sending it through the car wash WILL deal additional damage to it...In a game with no repairs. Its a lot of hassle for a vehicle that is way too frail, way too big (which is ultimately a stylistic choice), and way too offensively weak, on top of being dumb (AI wise) and slow....which has to make this the worst Harvester I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with in a game, compare that to Shrimps who are.....the complete opposite, they feel like the harvesters from Starcraft.

Its a difference I can't wrap my head around as a game design decision. Defending eco is one thing, but normally you can establish a good static defensive perimeter around it (you cannot as Balt fields are consumed in only a couple trips), and other units are hardly likely to friendly fire the harvester in good RTS games whereas in Silica.....great.....greaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Its fine when its just defending against crabs, with scouts/rifles, but gets significantly more annoying when better raiders show up, which is a problem....because of how balterium fields and harvesters themselves work, yaaaaaaaaaaaay.

Also, speaking of the UHV Factory. Why does it take 95 seconds to make a refinery with a harvester, but 185 seconds to make a harvester on its own?

Kinda seems ridiculous that if you want to replace your harvesters lategame and you don't have space for more refineries you have to build a 6000 cost factory and then wait 6 minutes for it to build and then spend 1500 and wait a further 3 minutes...

Цитата допису The Apogostick:

Цитата допису Humble Techpriest:

As somebody who has played RTS games since childhood, I would be inclined to agree, if it wasn't for the fact that in comparison Harvesters in other games are:

Basic Vehicle Factory (or emplaced structures, looking at you Ashes of the Singularity and Supreme Commander), fairly cheap, and in, for example, Command and Conquer, a Harvester vs Infantry is such a one sided engagement in the favor of the harvester it is almost criminal, especailly with the battle miners (Red Alert 2 Soviets and Yuri, Command and Conquer 3 GDI) who are capable of not only defending themselves against infantry (or light vehicle raiders for GDI Zocom in Kanes Wrath), but being an emergency rush option.

But what is important is they are cheap, fairly resilient, and in many cases can defend themselves from any cheap early game chaff rushes, and the counters to the early game rushes they cant counter is easily produced....all without risks of friendly fire.

However the Silica Harvester is in the Ultra Heavy Vehicle Factory.....needless to say an investment and something you will not have early, it has respectable armor (not HP, it's HP is actually quite low in my experience, particularly against things that actually can damage it), it struggles to path to the nodes (something no real other harvester manages in core RTS games), and despite being a Battle Harvester (as it has two turrets) it is vulnerable to free respawning units, not just due to how the firing angles being awful, but the guns used....im pretty sure the scout SMG is better than the Harvester MG turrets, and sending it through the car wash WILL deal additional damage to it...In a game with no repairs. Its a lot of hassle for a vehicle that is way too frail, way too big (which is ultimately a stylistic choice), and way too offensively weak, on top of being dumb (AI wise) and slow....which has to make this the worst Harvester I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with in a game, compare that to Shrimps who are.....the complete opposite, they feel like the harvesters from Starcraft.

Its a difference I can't wrap my head around as a game design decision. Defending eco is one thing, but normally you can establish a good static defensive perimeter around it (you cannot as Balt fields are consumed in only a couple trips), and other units are hardly likely to friendly fire the harvester in good RTS games whereas in Silica.....great.....greaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Its fine when its just defending against crabs, with scouts/rifles, but gets significantly more annoying when better raiders show up, which is a problem....because of how balterium fields and harvesters themselves work, yaaaaaaaaaaaay.

Also, speaking of the UHV Factory. Why does it take 95 seconds to make a refinery with a harvester, but 185 seconds to make a harvester on its own?

Kinda seems ridiculous that if you want to replace your harvesters lategame and you don't have space for more refineries you have to build a 6000 cost factory and then wait 6 minutes for it to build and then spend 1500 and wait a further 3 minutes...

......For one of the worst Harvesters I have seen in an RTS, even when the pathing eventually gets fixed...its slow, a massive target, and so poorly armed it may as well not have guns.....

That cannot be left out of this lol. It's even worse value when all factors are considered.

Maybe you have in plans to add some grenades to rifelmans?

Guys I completely understand the hate towards the Harvesters and rest assured the current state is NOT the intended final state. Please remember this is early access and will change, multiple times, as it already has, over the course of development. You all bring up multiple good points and I agree with a multitude of them, and will adjust them accordingly. I have just held of true balancing as I needed to get the performance issues, the promised air units and a bunch of fixes out of the way first. Once AI is significantly improved, as is now the plan, it will make sense to truly balance the Harvester vs units. Namely, the fact it takes longer to build in UHVF is essentially just an overlooked point. It should also be buildable directly from the Refinery in future.

Цитата допису Dram:

Guys I completely understand the hate towards the Harvesters and rest assured the current state is NOT the intended final state. Please remember this is early access and will change, multiple times, as it already has, over the course of development. You all bring up multiple good points and I agree with a multitude of them, and will adjust them accordingly. I have just held of true balancing as I needed to get the performance issues, the promised air units and a bunch of fixes out of the way first. Once AI is significantly improved, as is now the plan, it will make sense to truly balance the Harvester vs units. Namely, the fact it takes longer to build in UHVF is essentially just an overlooked point. It should also be buildable directly from the Refinery in future.

Building harvesters from refineries would be fantastic, thanks Dram!

Harvester walk path and the Aim of the units can use some work but its good so far would love a new third faction besides another Human faction i just find that to be a cpoy and paste type. Good job devs with the air its sick af

Цитата допису XXPhantomReaperXX:

Harvester walk path and the Aim of the units can use some work but its good so far would love a new third faction besides another Human faction i just find that to be a cpoy and paste type. Good job devs with the air its sick af

Sol and Centauri are currently exact copy pastes, were there a hardcore mode for FPS players it would be confusion lol, kinda wish we got a Centauri faction roster before air units.