Alien underpowered

[Abiboi]

This is some feedback after playing 15 Games as commander and a few as Infantry in Alien faction

Alien are at an unfair disadvantage. First the spawn location can really seal the fate of your game the moment it starts. while human usually have Ressources near their compound. As an alien if you spawn in the mountains the gathering time and speed at wich ressources depo depletes makes it hard to get a propper economy.

Alien lacks Ranged options and speed. All early unit are melee and entire army can be cheesed by one player with a light quad. Lest not talk about the endgame human units like siege tank who can massacre a 50 crab zerg in one shot.

Alien low tier unit needs to be faster, cost less and be faster to produce.

given human and alien commander start with a Hunter and a light quad i suppose both fill the same "role", then why is the hunter more expensive, require a more expensive building and is longer to produce. Hunter is the go to unit for alien FPS player because it's the only unity that stands a chance at outmanuvering tanks if the maps allows it.
All the other are either too weak to do significant damage ( when they can get in range ) or to slow like the goliath where tanks just need to backpedal while chipping at their health.

I've win a few game as Alien commander and it was either because human commander didn't know how to research and didn't have tank early enough to efficiently counter my Goliath. Or because FPS players in my team took goliath on a 15+ minutes journey hugging the world edge to surprise attack in the back of the enemy base.

The moment Alien base is discovered you better get ready for the unstoppable human tank zerg because if you don't have FPS player in your team it's game over

Also, Alien ranged AI don't shoot at target, they just walk to it. they also don't auto agro units and you need to babysit them

[StarleyYe]

lol. i played around 30 matches as comm. Human and alien.

Disagree with your post. Aliens got more advantages. Especially on small map. i wons when i was a single alien vs 5-6 human players. i wons when i was a single human vs 8 alienplayers.

I saw aliens wins more often then humans when i was in fps mode as a human.

[Scubert]

yeah i wish there was an a move so armies could shoot anything on their way to a destination and an auto queue button for units you're making. it would make bugs so much easier to play since most of your time is spent juggling between nodes and making units.

[7heServan7]

more detailed commands for units would be nice. i dont think u can easily compare the 2 teams they r completely different play styles its all down to how fast you can produce and the human team has had problems with harvesters i say give them a while to smooth the game out its still new. would love a few more maps maybe another new team to play as down the road. i think the infantry could use a little bit more attention to detail, if your in 3rd person or gun just points strait...

[Shortpower]

The teams feel roughly even barring human economy bugs and infinite free specialized infantry.

Played I wanna say 9? Games roughly 50/50, 3 as commander (2 human, 1 alien)

99% of inter-unit complaints are literally just skill diffs.

Comparing unit costs when economy output isn't similar is also odd.

As rude as it sounds to say, every commander seems to suck at RTS's and most players suck at shooters.

I've won all but 1 game, and the one game was a 1v1v1 where I ended up targeted because I was too aggressive.

This counts games where my host quit because I was winning against them.

[[OG] Brandoid]

I think alien is strongest if they have the right commander

[DM30]

Aliens are extremely powerful if they have high ground to abuse. The humans don't have the maneuverability to dislodge a bunch of scorpions peeking over a ridgeline or circling a rock pillar unless they can outnumber and flank them, but good luck building up numbers when those scorpions are whittling your units down and easily ducking back into cover when they start taking any kind of return fire.

Like others said, a huge part of the issue is skill levels. Another big part is AI problems. Alien AI isn't smart enough to really exploit the aliens' strengths, but a couple of players in alien units can be devastating. Human AI can get away with being a lot more simplistic: just aim and shoot, but then the AI hamstrings them with god-awful harvester pathfinding that can completely freeze the human economy even without enemy interference.

IMO there isn't really a lot of point in discussing balancing until some of the fundamental issues like AI and pathfinding get stabilized. Once things are working consistently, then the balance passes can start.

For context: played a string of games the past couple of evenings with relatively balanced teams numbers-wise and mostly skilled commanders. Alien team won about 75% of those games, so they definitely aren't weak when played right.

[Abiboi]

Originally posted by DM30:

Aliens are extremely powerful if they have high ground to abuse. The humans don't have the maneuverability to dislodge a bunch of scorpions peeking over a ridgeline or circling a rock pillar unless they can outnumber and flank them, but good luck building up numbers when those scorpions are whittling your units down and easily ducking back into cover when they start taking any kind of return fire.

Like others said, a huge part of the issue is skill levels. Another big part is AI problems. Alien AI isn't smart enough to really exploit the aliens' strengths, but a couple of players in alien units can be devastating. Human AI can get away with being a lot more simplistic: just aim and shoot, but then the AI hamstrings them with god-awful harvester pathfinding that can completely freeze the human economy even without enemy interference.

IMO there isn't really a lot of point in discussing balancing until some of the fundamental issues like AI and pathfinding get stabilized. Once things are working consistently, then the balance passes can start.

For context: played a string of games the past couple of evenings with relatively balanced teams numbers-wise and mostly skilled commanders. Alien team won about 75% of those games, so they definitely aren't weak when played right.

I agree with your points. But in most replies here take in account where Alien units are played by human players. I agree that Alien units can get really powerfull when played by a player. my main point is that a player in human faction can be wayyy more effecient all by himself than an Alien player. No matter the Alien unit you play if you don't pull a sneaky you ain't winning. For exemple a Scorpion can zap a armored car easy but is frankly useless against any other higher tank tier in ranged damage so the only way to take down thoose is melee. so in endgame you are outgunned

Other argument is Harvester bug, and well if the game is currently balanced because Havester pathfinding sucks and human can get starved for a few minutes ( wich i've had happen to me as well ) then what will it be like next update when this is fixed ?

Due to the game being EA it's obvious that more units type are coming i'm just discussing the current state of the game balance. Tho i believe it's worth discussing since the dev would obv want their game balanced in some way so feedbacks and opinions are worth sharing.

It would be nice to have features such as spotting a target area to automatically Build a nodes road to so Alien commander can get more time to babysit their units.

[Banaminati]

Originally posted by StarleyYe:

lol. i played around 30 matches as comm. Human and alien.

Disagree with your post. Aliens got more advantages. Especially on small map. i wons when i was a single alien vs 5-6 human players. i wons when i was a single human vs 8 alienplayers.

I saw aliens wins more often then humans when i was in fps mode as a human.

Your lying aliens are worse

[DM30]

Originally posted by Abiboi:

I agree with your points. But in most replies here take in account where Alien units are played by human players. I agree that Alien units can get really powerfull when played by a player. my main point is that a player in human faction can be wayyy more effecient all by himself than an Alien player. No matter the Alien unit you play if you don't pull a sneaky you ain't winning. For exemple a Scorpion can zap a armored car easy but is frankly useless against any other higher tank tier in ranged damage so the only way to take down thoose is melee. so in endgame you are outgunned

Other argument is Harvester bug, and well if the game is currently balanced because Havester pathfinding sucks and human can get starved for a few minutes ( wich i've had happen to me as well ) then what will it be like next update when this is fixed ?

Due to the game being EA it's obvious that more units type are coming i'm just discussing the current state of the game balance. Tho i believe it's worth discussing since the dev would obv want their game balanced in some way so feedbacks and opinions are worth sharing.

It would be nice to have features such as spotting a target area to automatically Build a nodes road to so Alien commander can get more time to babysit their units.

Players are also powerful in human units, sure, but depends on the unit. Quads and Armored Cars are frail enough that they can be dealt with pretty easily from what I've seen in-game (as long as aliens aren't forced to charge them across open ground). Hover Tanks and Railgun Tanks do big damage, but they're slow enough that alien players can use cover to completely avoid their lines of fire.

Siege Tanks and Rocket Arty, yeah, those can be a problem, but my opinion on them is that I'd like to see an alien class added that more directly rivals them. Goliath kind of matches up against the siege tank I guess, since they're both slow and super sturdy, though the goliath only has melee against the siege tank's range. But a new alien class that answers the rocket arty would be a good addition IMO.

On the subject of a fix for the harvester AI breaking game balance, that's why there would need to be follow-up balance passes. Any effort spent balancing things in a broken state is just wasted time since it'll have to be re-balanced when things are fixed anyway.

[Lying Sack Of Fun]

Originally posted by DM30:

Originally posted by Abiboi:

I agree with your points. But in most replies here take in account where Alien units are played by human players. I agree that Alien units can get really powerfull when played by a player. my main point is that a player in human faction can be wayyy more effecient all by himself than an Alien player. No matter the Alien unit you play if you don't pull a sneaky you ain't winning. For exemple a Scorpion can zap a armored car easy but is frankly useless against any other higher tank tier in ranged damage so the only way to take down thoose is melee. so in endgame you are outgunned

Other argument is Harvester bug, and well if the game is currently balanced because Havester pathfinding sucks and human can get starved for a few minutes ( wich i've had happen to me as well ) then what will it be like next update when this is fixed ?

Due to the game being EA it's obvious that more units type are coming i'm just discussing the current state of the game balance. Tho i believe it's worth discussing since the dev would obv want their game balanced in some way so feedbacks and opinions are worth sharing.

It would be nice to have features such as spotting a target area to automatically Build a nodes road to so Alien commander can get more time to babysit their units.

Players are also powerful in human units, sure, but depends on the unit. Quads and Armored Cars are frail enough that they can be dealt with pretty easily from what I've seen in-game (as long as aliens aren't forced to charge them across open ground). Hover Tanks and Railgun Tanks do big damage, but they're slow enough that alien players can use cover to completely avoid their lines of fire.

Siege Tanks and Rocket Arty, yeah, those can be a problem, but my opinion on them is that I'd like to see an alien class added that more directly rivals them. Goliath kind of matches up against the siege tank I guess, since they're both slow and super sturdy, though the goliath only has melee against the siege tank's range. But a new alien class that answers the rocket arty would be a good addition IMO.

On the subject of a fix for the harvester AI breaking game balance, that's why there would need to be follow-up balance passes. Any effort spent balancing things in a broken state is just wasted time since it'll have to be re-balanced when things are fixed anyway.

Yup. AI needs to be better before balancing happens. I don't think siege tanks should one shot the toughest alien though.

[Cautemoc]

Aliens 100% have an advantage on a level playing field, with equal commanders. They can scale up their economy faster, which means getting to scorpions before humans can get to tanks, and if players use those scorpions to harass harvesters the game is basically done before humans can even get a tank floating on their stupid little jets.

[omar_uav]

Originally posted by Abiboi:

This is some feedback after playing 15 Games as commander and a few as Infantry in Alien faction


Alien are at an unfair disadvantage. First the spawn location can really seal the fate of your game the moment it starts. while human usually have Ressources near their compound. As an alien if you spawn in the mountains the gathering time and speed at wich ressources depo depletes makes it hard to get a propper economy.

i hugely disagree with what you said.

First lets talk about Balterium "Human Resource"

There is Multiple Sizes of Deposit of Balterium, at 8400->30000, While Bugs do have a single type and its at 22000.

So in matter of fact if your resources near your base at 8500 , and other at 10k you are going to lose in the long run, because you cant expand your base around, and so humans resrouces are much of RNG and may deplete much faster, so lets talk about ratio, humans may get resources that is 36% of your resource depot, or 136%. much of the map is between 10000-18500.

second, a harvester and a balterium field is much much more visible than shrimps going to biotics (the equailivant of balterium), and with current AI and torque and speed of harvester. good luck.

Originally posted by Abiboi:

Alien lacks Ranged options and speed. All early unit are melee and entire army can be cheesed by one player with a light quad. Lest not talk about the endgame human units like siege tank who can massacre a 50 crab zerg in one shot.

Alien low tier unit needs to be faster, cost less and be faster to produce.

given human and alien commander start with a Hunter and a light quad i suppose both fill the same "role", then why is the hunter more expensive, require a more expensive building and is longer to produce. Hunter is the go to unit for alien FPS player because it's the only unity that stands a chance at outmanuvering tanks if the maps allows it.

Early game single hunter that you get by default is of strength of 3 light quads, hunter do have a health pool of 4500 and 2 points of armor with a health regen of 30 per 5 seconds.
Light quad have a HP of 3000, with no armor, and no health regen full 0 and no repairing.

Light quad full burst from AI to hunter, with OP accuracy does about 1.3K damage, Hunter does 800 damage per right click and 400 per left click, thats 1.2K damage in 1 second, also many shots are deflected by the hunter`s armor.

Hunter also is immune to fall damage, I mean it immune , on other hand light quad from base to front line thats nearly 120 HP gone due to terrain.

As in speed, yes Light quad only! are faster than hunter, in flat even terrain, due to jumps, turns loses alot of speed,and high speed turns usually ends with a flip, and in some maps the sand dunes are sharp, its risky to engage a hunter, you can harrass hunter with light quad, but never kill in 1v1, in 2v1 yes but thats 600 Points to 500 Points.

Originally posted by Abiboi:

Alien lacks Ranged options and speed.

All the other are either too weak to do significant damage ( when they can get in range ) or to slow like the goliath where tanks just need to backpedal while chipping at their health.

lets talk about the scorpion, costs cheaper than any tank/Long Range Vehicle. at 1600, while cheapest of heavy units is 2200 and its hover tank.

as scorpion kills everything below hovertank easily , and also everything below hovertank cant penetrate scorpion`s armor, including heavy armored vehicle at point blank range, thats why i would start with hover tank.

Hover Tank have HP of 13K | Costs 2200
Scorpion have HP of 12K | costs 1600 | 30HP regen per 5 seconds

Scorpion Full Burst to Front Armor of hover tank from the front does about 850 damage, with 39-71 damage per projectile, depending to armor value, Scorpion side armor shots to hover tank does 79-241 damage, thats nearly 1.6K per burst, and from back is nearly 2.5K per burst with 79-241, but the 241 (or penetration is more common)

Hovertank to Scorpion does 4K damage if Penetrated ,sometimes it does not. with a 5 seconds reload time in "Rapid Shooting" , which means after 5 rounds, you would need to sit for 10 seconds not firing to reload the autoloader.



Scorpion have instant turret rotation, try holding ALT and move the screen around instant. unlike tanks, while also Scorpion top head is impossible to shot when its hunker down in high terrain and only exposing his tail.

as hover tank camera angle, you may be able to see the TAIL of the scorpion, but the tank itself cannot, and your shots are hitting terrain.


This was today
https://imgur.com/a/kAxJlC6
single Scorpion, killed Harvester,Research,HQ.

was not counterable.

Originally posted by Abiboi:

The moment Alien base is discovered you better get ready for the unstoppable human tank zerg because if you don't have FPS player in your team it's game over

Same goes for humans ,once your base discovered get ready for 1 single crab standing in middle top of harvester alone killing it, or a hunter, with no counter to it, and the issue players not joining your team , is not a balancing issue, but that the game needs an auto balancer.

Originally posted by Abiboi:

Also, Alien ranged AI don't shoot at target, they just walk to it. they also don't auto agro units and you need to babysit them

This i agree with you, but its not just aliens, both even humans the AI is kinda weird right now, sometimes melee alien AI would just stand there.

[Elite665]

everyone here saying no I WIN AS ALIENS hasn't experienced buggy spam... alien cant beat it 3-4 medium and heavy buggy will destroy your unit creation facilities so fast and youll just be stuck then

[Elite665]

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

Aliens 100% have an advantage on a level playing field, with equal commanders. They can scale up their economy faster, which means getting to scorpions before humans can get to tanks, and if players use those scorpions to harass harvesters the game is basically done before humans can even get a tank floating on their stupid little jets.

u cant get scorps if i camp the building and keep blowing ti up with buggy (and no your crabs cant catch my buggy)

[Elite665]

Originally posted by StarleyYe:

lol. i played around 30 matches as comm. Human and alien.

Disagree with your post. Aliens got more advantages. Especially on small map. i wons when i was a single alien vs 5-6 human players. i wons when i was a single human vs 8 alienplayers.

I saw aliens wins more often then humans when i was in fps mode as a human.

thats just because your coms didnt know what they were doing