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Do I really have to back into my investment argument? Go see my initial post about CP with all the numbers.
My god are you daft. Beatrix comes with arcane vigor, and you get an arcane barrier in a chest. I can't remember if the game gives you can arcane speed out of a chest or not, but I don't want them anyway; you're the guy who won't shut up about SKL.
I literally even addressed the leadership issue. It's a NON-ISSUE. READ.
Holy hell this guy. You remember how this started? How you said dragons were rare and little investment and I disagreed, with explained reasoning? And then you went on about how you invest even more in these "little investment" units to make them better because there's no other uses for these items despite there being TONS of use for them? And then you keep going on how I should be using things on other units instead of dragons for some reason? You're literally the one walking circles AROUND THE TOPIC. I just keep foolishly providing counter-arguments for them when it's clearly a waste of time, and now you're saying I'm the one causing it.
You want to get back on topic? Explain how dragons aren't rare, and aren't little investment. Let's use numbers, too. Numbers are good.
You cannot. On a save from before the patch. arena tokens steadily go up in price for each kind you buy and the cost will quickly outweigh the gain. In newer saves, you cannot buy arena tokens in the endgame market anymore at all. You're the one who needs to 'beat the game before participating.'
But anyway it's good to know that you finally start learning how the game works.
idk, other than the fact tier 2 dragon are basically tier 3 fire mage with ice mage aoe, all for 0 material investment and easy lvl up because of how much dmg they does, or how you guarantee to have 4 squads with a dragon each by chapter 12, like how easily it is to get them to tier 3 in a matter of time. You are the one who bringing up all these super rare traits and named mercs as if they are pebbles on the side walk.
Hey, it's not my fault devs saw my comments and other folks in this thread about the arena token abuse and had the drop the emergency nerf hammer. Maybe if you learnt how to play the game by yourself, you too would have been able to enjoy the infinite farm.
Anyway, it's not even my business to play this game or arguing about it anymore. Just beaten this game on warlord for the forth time just this morning, fresh run, gotten the last achievement I was missing. I didn't even bother deploying Beatrix or zelos, just Diana and 10 other random turtle squads. Diana spanked Zanatus's arse like when she arse-raep Casamir. Not sure why you even bother with Beatrix and Zelos, but if they are your husbando and waifu then go ahead and all in on them instead of dragons.
People are talking about them being "easily" stat-boosted, etc., but at the point I'm at (scenario 14) I have one Dragon leveled past the first level- Nibbler. Nibbler works because he's attached to a powerhouse Healer with enough LDR, who can stack more troops from the start; the other one is taking forever to level up. Yes, I could've moved the Dragon to a Story Hero's squad, but I'm generally not bothering with all that micromanagement, once a squad's built, other than adding units, because I really don't have that kind of free time (makes me wonder why I started this in the first place, when I can maybe play 1-2 battles a night, lol).
Once you get from Dragonet to Dragon, it's OK; they start outputting enough damage to be useful, and aren't a liability.
In doesn't "feel right" that Dragons are terrible meat-shields, imo. They're so fragile, yet use more space than anything that isn't cavalry.
I get that, if you have infinite free time and will be playing the game all the way through multiple times, or are planning on doing really deliberate grinding, you can figure out optimax strategies with them, but as a first-time player, they don't feel great.
Personally, I think they should've had much better ARM and MHP, but be limited to one breath attack and one swipe vs. a single target, and had some variant paths to upgrade that weren't just "do you want the breath weapon that doesn't suck" (for example, a non-flying Dragon that can just swipe, but has a nice high STR), but that would've taken a little more artwork and time.
IDK, overall, I feel like this game, while certainly a worthy clone of Ogre Battle / Fire Emblem, doesn't have the same chunky, weird feel that I loved about Ogre Battle; even if I finish it, I can't imagine doing it again, just to see new stuff. I really wish there were more strange units that did strange things or off-hand uses, and less of an emphasis on "stat this perfectly for that one thing it's good for" (that, and why do females only have healer-centric roles, with exactly one, really terrible, caster...). I feel like the game would be keeping my interest more if I didn't think that the next 10+ chapters were just more of the same vs. ever-more-powerful enemies in larger and larger numbers.
Dragons are just one of the things where I feel like we're just expected to "know" that there's only one optimal path and there's no room for variations or experiments. The whole game appears to be built around XCOM-like "recruit / fire guys until you get the perfect stat line" etc., which feels like pointless and boring minutia; I'd rather have weird Pumpkinheads and Vampire Lords, etc., and just have fun playing through it all on Cadet, where it doesn't matter much if my choices "suck'.
Seriously tho, as soon as you can get a drake squad or two up and running, you will be playing the game on Cadet mode regardless of difficulty setting you choose.
I think this is likely due to your time constraints, so you haven't really been exposed to or can afford the time to experiment with the game. Plus, IMO, Chapters 1-15 are basically "early game". My first playthrough I didn't even have a single T3 unit(other than story units like Diana, etc.) until Chapter 12,,, which was a single Sentinel and a Sorceress.
Which, speaking of females, IMO they have some of the best classes in the game. If you discount the Medic -> Templar/Hospitaler line...Swordfighters/masters are incredibly strong but lack the armor of Champions in order to have excessive SKL.(great for evasion/glancing blows, which reduces damage from everything) Acolytes and Paladins/Valkyries are great too. If you raised them from Militia they will have decent STR/damage but be a bit lacking in INT so their heals won't be as good. (reversed if raised from Medic)
Now Sirens, IMO, suck compared to an Apprentice. However, the Sorceress is actually pretty great but not for the Damage. The Stun/Daze is what makes her great and a contender compared to the elemental mages. If you set up the squad right, you can really hit way above their level due to Stun preventing enemy heals or retaliates.
I think the major problems with Dragons are 1) They take a long time/investment to get good, and 2) There's really no variation other than flavor and one sometimes does Chill while another does Stun.
IMO, Dragons don't get "good" until they have a color since that's when they start doing damage. However, it seems like to make good use of them you need the entire squad to be Dragons... that's when they start murdering everything, and when you get to Riders it becomes ridiculous. Throw in some good traits/artifacts and you'll have a 30+K threat squad raining death on everything.... and can Fly.
TLDR: IMO, I think it's a good sign of balance/customization when you have people with different experiences/assessments with X or Y. Personally the only units I'd say outright suck are dragons before they have a color upgrade, and Sirens before Sorceress upgrade.
Dwagons do bring a lot to the party and they are a fantastically good unit. They don't always make up for it early on but they develop into strong units late-game that are incredible compliments to low-LDR teams. I wouldn't call them "better" than an ice-mage but I would call them "equals." An ice-mage + another troop always costs more than a dwagon to field and it increases the total cost of the squad to massive #s while a 3-dwagon squad costs... what... about 75LDR to field without discounts? With discounts it's about 70? That's incredibly easy to build. Meanwhile, a 9-stack with full loyalty is ~92. Maybe as low at 84 if you are running an LDR trait or a bonded character.
Fire-breathing-flying-doom-machines are kinda rad, yo.
Dunno, it's probably because I'm still figuring out what things are, but even a 3 dragon stack feels kinda... eh? To me? Might be because I've only gotten them out late, but they're so rare and expensive to find that it makes it hard for me to field more than a couple squads of them, and at this point, I can make a bigger amount of insta death with mages and the sorceresses I've trained up. It might be better midgame, since a healer-dragon squad is about 75 and you can reach that with a few artifacts and items, but when Grand Army for free 10 more cap for each squad rolls around, they kinda feel obsolete. In addition, they're a lot more vulnerable to skirmish squads than anyone I have outside of dedicated archers which makes it feel like a chore to keep them alive. Biggest success has been loading Beatrice with them and priestesses with the Skull and first strike on defense item and throwing her into the middle of the enemy with the special abilities. Abygail with flight is good at getting her into impassible terrain for forced surrenders, but there's not much else she can do that one of my other squads can't. Dunno, might mess some more with the traits and see if it makes it any better.