Unit Tier List

[The Jason Order]

After playing around a bit with different unit types and combinations, it's pretty clear that some classes are a step above others.

Here is my opinion on unit tier list after playing the game twice, once on champion and once on warlord.

S: (Class is always strong)
Paladin, Sentinel, Fire Mage, Dragon Rider, Templar, Raider

A: (Class is always useful, or very strong in some situations)
Warbow, Swordmaster

B: (Other classes are better in the same role, or class is only strong in some situation)
Valkyrie, Dragoon, Hussar, Champion, Lightning Mage, Dragons, Cannons, Gunner

C: (Class could use some buffs)
Knight, Zweihander, Ranger, Sorceress, Samurai, Centurion, Ice Mage

A note on some units:

Paladins are strong front line units that provide damage reduction to your healers. One per unit is optimal, if only for the damage reduction.

Sentinels are the clear top choice for a front line unit, while also being cheap to make, and have low requirements to upgrade in terms of stats.

Dragons are strong units, but weaker than 2 units. A stopgap between leadership tiers. Dragon Rider units, on the other hand, provide unmatched versatility in terms of movement, allowing you to easily complete a lot of the more difficult challenges. 1-2 flying units, even if not maxed in terms of size (6) will completely change your strategic options.

Templar. Mandatory for Warlord perma death, and useful for gameplay in general. 2 per unit seems to be the sweet spot.

Fire Mages may be pushing all other DPS units out. 3 Fire Mages in a unit will, even when under leveled, wipe out almost any unit in the entire game, at any point in the game, with very few exceptions. Note that even with magic being weaker on subsequent casts, an underlevled unit with no artifacts will still wipe out 3-4 units in one turn before magic is too weak to do so.

Raider, a better strategic option than warbows for perma death because you can move after shooting. Warbows are much more limited since a misposition will lead to some dying on defense.

Swordmaster, high DPS class with very high single target damage. Outclassed slightly by Fire Mages.

Dragoons / Gunner - very strong right when you unlock them, and also when you upgrade to 2 shots, but falls off slowly. Very poor overkill and damage spread causing them to be significanyly worse for unit wiping.

Cannons - strong on offense, but not significantly more so than classes who can also defend.

My most common unit is:

Front Line: 2 Sentinel and Paladin
Middle: 3 Fire Mages
Rear: 2 Templar and 1 Fire Mage/Special Character

Flying Unit:
Front: 2 Silver Dragon Riders and Paladin
Rear: 1 Red Dragon Rider and 2 Templar

Ranged Unit:
7-9 Raider

[pristine20]

Is this before or after the patch because heavy units got buffed

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

S tier: Diana, Beatrix, Zelos, cannons
B tier: MC
F tier: everything else

[McBootyPirate]

You didn't mention the assassin, which I'd probably put in B. Good for bursting down the backline, but awkwardly difficult to attack the middle. Also curious about your placements of the unique classes. Diana and Beatrix are obviously SS-tier, MC is probably an A, and Stephan is likely A/B, and Raksuja is hovering B for me. I didn't get to try out Narima's unique Blademaster yet, so can't comment on that.

[Lampros]

This sounds like an excellent list, except 2 questions:

1. I asked this elsewhere, but why do you consider Swordmasters a tier above Champions? Don't Swordmasters and Champions both do two single target swings? They seem functionally similar. Does the Swordmaster do more damage?

2. Why are Fire Mages so much better than the alternatives? I am using all different varieties of mages, and I am not seeing a huge difference. Of course, the combat animations do go by very fast, and we don't have a combat log - so I cannot be definitive.

[Tomos]

I agree with the Valkyries. They seem nice but in practice they are super buggy. If you have a team of all Valkyries and one of them is hurt a little, all of them will decide to overheal the wounded instead of fighting on the first turn, essentially giving the enemy first strike advantage. I wanted to have some cavalry ladies but oh man are they disappointing.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Kris DETERMINATION:

I agree with the Valkyries. They seem nice but in practice they are super buggy. If you have a team of all Valkyries and one of them is hurt a little, all of them will decide to overheal the wounded instead of fighting on the first turn, essentially giving the enemy first strike advantage. I wanted to have some cavalry ladies but oh man are they disappointing.

Why would you use all Valkyries in the first place - other than for aesthetic reasons? They are not as tanky as Knights - nor do they hit as hard. And they would be over-powered if they did - AND still able to heal. Obviously, their design was to use them in singles or twos per squad, and they function fine in this context.

[McBootyPirate]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Why would you use all Valkyries in the first place - other than for aesthetic reasons? They are not as tanky as Knights - nor do they hit as hard. And they would be over-powered if they did - AND still able to heal. Obviously, their design was to use them in singles or twos per squad, and they function fine in this context.

Paladins are their infantry counterpart and they are right up there with the Sentinel. Since their passive converts a portion of their magic into armor, they're very well-rounded defensively and can heal in a pinch. Their only counter in my experience are firearms. Valkyries didn't impress me as much, perhaps due to the reason Lampros mentioned.

[Lampros]

Oh, two more questions to OP - or anyone else regarding OP's list:

1. Why Raider so high? I understand they can shoot-and-move, but is that enough to put them in "S" tier? Damage is mediocre, and other ranged options have far more range (albeit without the shoot-and-move option).

2. Why Ice Mages so low?

[The Jason Order]

pristine20 This is from after the patch, although I did play the majority of the game on the old patch, I started a new play through and tried out the changes at various stages of the game.

McBootyPirate, the assassin is significantly underpowered, especially compared to other DPS classes. If we ignore the ambush ability, if you had a full light squad, they are at least 3-6x worse than a Fire Mage in terms of damage. Also, if you are trying to wipe out units in one attack, they are not the best choice, and if you are aiming for max surrender, they are the worst choice, since they will kill healers. As an amushing unit I'd still lean heavily into Sword Masters.

Lampros, Sword Masters will have significantly higher SKL, due to Soldier/Fighter SKL growth, unless bought as mercenaries. Even then, it will be much lower. While they take less damage, they are not going to be your front line on Warlord permanent death, so they will be filling back line DPS slot. If you have the precision talent, Sword Master will kill 2 units almost every time, and also have the highest boss damage. Any militia or sword fighter with precision is automatically top tier DPS, which makes them an attractive buy from markets.

Fire Mages have the better AOE attack pattern, with cold being the worst. 2 Fire and 1 Thunder can actually be just as good if not better than 3 Fire though, due to overkill.

The ability to move after shooting is so strong that I'd rate Horsebow over Warbow. The extra range is only useful to avoid getting counter attacked by other archers, but you will either be targetting mixed or non archer units, or attacking first kills so many archers the counter does little. When getting attacked once as a pure archer unit means a permanent loss, Raider just adds so much safety. The extra damage is also significant at putting units into a range in which you can now either kill them instantly with a real attacker, or will reduce the damage you will take from a counter. You will also cripple weaker units if not outright kill them. So their either kill weak units instantly, or allow you to safely attack units stronger than your melee units, or allow you to instantly kill units. All of which are insanely strong in Warlord Permanent Death. I always make at least 2 raider units with Jules and Narima, and 3 if I get any merc with bow captain. You can not go wrong with this unit.

[Sins]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Oh, two more questions to OP - or anyone else regarding OP's list:

1. Why Raider so high? I understand they can shoot-and-move, but is that enough to put them in "S" tier? Damage is mediocre, and other ranged options have far more range (albeit without the shoot-and-move option).

2. Why Ice Mages so low?

Focusing on #1: Shoot-and-move is great. Think of it this way: you have a unit that can move further while also putting themselves farther away after shooting if needed. Your positioning over a warbow unit is a lot more flexible, you can pretty much always put their fire where you need it while still keeping as safe if not safer than warbows.

Then on top of that: As light cavalry, Raiders have not only higher health due to cavalry upgrades, but also tack on some serious evasion. If something happens and they do get hit by either other archers or a melee unit, they're way more likely to survive, with potential for evading damage entirely in a way a warbow unit just can't do.

It isn't enough to completely invalidate a squad of warbows because sometimes what you really need is that enhanced range and higher damage, but there's a lot of small advantages to Raiders that can justify bringing more of them, or even mixing them into other units. 7 move, greater durability and evasion, hit-and-run all adds up to a pretty flexible unit.

[The Jason Order]

Keep in mind there's nothing stopping you from putting in Warbow with Raider if you want the extra damage and keep the move. As long as the CAP is higher of raiders (either have one more, or simply have the same number but with less total loyalty), and you can get the benefits of both.

5 Raider 4 Warbow, or early on something like 4,3 or 3,3

[RyanEX2000]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Oh, two more questions to OP - or anyone else regarding OP's list:

1. Why Raider so high? I understand they can shoot-and-move, but is that enough to put them in "S" tier? Damage is mediocre, and other ranged options have far more range (albeit without the shoot-and-move option).

2. Why Ice Mages so low?

1)Like any gunner unit it's about the quantity. You don't just have 1 or 2 guns units. Three is a minimum with 5 plus a healer behind some something to soak up damage. And once you unlock the tech so they can fire twice...

2)For me personally I found their damage too low to warrant using them despite the debuff they can put on dodgy units. Fire mages decimate rows and Lighting mages, lines. I get they have their purpose but there's probably a reason they're easier to attain than fire or lightning.

[RyanEX2000]

Originally posted by McBootyPirate:

You didn't mention the assassin, which I'd probably put in B. Good for bursting down the backline, but awkwardly difficult to attack the middle. Also curious about your placements of the unique classes. Diana and Beatrix are obviously SS-tier, MC is probably an A, and Stephan is likely A/B, and Raksuja is hovering B for me. I didn't get to try out Narima's unique Blademaster yet, so can't comment on that.

Narima's new class kicks ass since it seems to be a cross between swordmaster, archer and assassin. Can shot arrows at range, hit twice per attack AND seems to be able to get around the front line to take out the soft targets in the back and middle row.

[Tomos]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Kris DETERMINATION:

I agree with the Valkyries. They seem nice but in practice they are super buggy. If you have a team of all Valkyries and one of them is hurt a little, all of them will decide to overheal the wounded instead of fighting on the first turn, essentially giving the enemy first strike advantage. I wanted to have some cavalry ladies but oh man are they disappointing.

Why would you use all Valkyries in the first place - other than for aesthetic reasons? They are not as tanky as Knights - nor do they hit as hard. And they would be over-powered if they did - AND still able to heal. Obviously, their design was to use them in singles or twos per squad, and they function fine in this context.

It was for Aesthetics, yeah. I was trying for an all-female army at the time. They were meant to be my fast hitters/tanks (at the time) but the healing thing I learned all too late.

[pristine20]

It's hard for me to imagine anyone who plays on warlord permadeath rating warbow higher than raider