I'm Picking Up The Vive Pro 2

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I wasn't expecting to even get into VR this soon - I've been holding out for 4K resolution per eye.

The VP2 is 5K per eye. Can't wait to start playing!

[Kurtino]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

I wasn't expecting to even get into VR this soon - I've been holding out for 4K resolution per eye.

The VP2 is 5K per eye. Can't wait to start playing!

Don't get the Vive Pro 2, it's a huge waste of money. If you want to blow your money but still have a good experience just get an Index. For the cost the VP2 cuts on too many features, such as proper controllers, eye tracking (like the previous vive pro had) and no real advances in the headset itself other than resolution over competitors.

If you want a high hertz headset with a high resolution wouldn't you have just bought a Pimax for cheaper? They already offer a headset with 5k resolution, 120hz, and a higher FOV than the VP2.

You'd also better have some sort of beast if you're expecting to run 5k resolutions at 120hz. I'd imagine you'd have to lower everything to compensate for that even on the greatest hardware, or play very low fidelity games/very well optimised games.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Kurtino:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

I wasn't expecting to even get into VR this soon - I've been holding out for 4K resolution per eye.

The VP2 is 5K per eye. Can't wait to start playing!

Don't get the Vive Pro 2, it's a huge waste of money. If you want to blow your money but still have a good experience just get an Index. For the cost the VP2 cuts on too many features, such as proper controllers, eye tracking (like the previous vive pro had) and no real advances in the headset itself other than resolution over competitors.

If you want a high hertz headset with a high resolution wouldn't you have just bought a Pimax for cheaper? They already offer a headset with 5k resolution, 120hz, and a higher FOV than the VP2.

You'd also better have some sort of beast if you're expecting to run 5k resolutions at 120hz. I'd imagine you'd have to lower everything to compensate for that even on the greatest hardware, or play very low fidelity games/very well optimised games.

The Pimax Super is 2560x1440 per eye (although the 200 FOV is nice). The Vive Pro 2 is 2448x2448.


Both are $800, and the Vive Pro 2 is $50 off right now with a promo code, so its actually cheaper. I don't really care that much about controllers, as I primarily intend to use it to play Star Citizen, for which I have dual joysticks and rudder pedals. No plans to get eye tracking (although I wish they'd start using in-HMD eye tracking soon).

https://pimax.com/5k-super-3/

[Kurtino]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Originally posted by Kurtino:

Don't get the Vive Pro 2, it's a huge waste of money. If you want to blow your money but still have a good experience just get an Index. For the cost the VP2 cuts on too many features, such as proper controllers, eye tracking (like the previous vive pro had) and no real advances in the headset itself other than resolution over competitors.

If you want a high hertz headset with a high resolution wouldn't you have just bought a Pimax for cheaper? They already offer a headset with 5k resolution, 120hz, and a higher FOV than the VP2.

You'd also better have some sort of beast if you're expecting to run 5k resolutions at 120hz. I'd imagine you'd have to lower everything to compensate for that even on the greatest hardware, or play very low fidelity games/very well optimised games.

The Pimax Super is 2560x1440 per eye (although the 200 FOV is nice). The Vive Pro 2 is 2448x2448.


Both are $800, and the Vive Pro 2 is $50 off right now with a promo code, so its actually cheaper. I don't really care that much about controllers, as I primarily intend to use it to play Star Citizen, for which I have dual joysticks and rudder pedals. No plans to get eye tracking (although I wish they'd start using in-HMD eye tracking soon).

https://pimax.com/5k-super-3/

Ah I see, I hadn't looked at the Vive Pro 2's specs but just the 5K tag. What about the Pimax 8k then? Presumably more expensive and without audio so the Vive Pro2 would be further worth it I suppose.

As someone who's tried multiple VR headsets as a VR researcher, I have access to a Pimax 5K Plus, an Index, a Vive Pro Eye, and a Rift CV1 right now. The visual quality between the Vive Pro and the Index is quite significant, despite the resolutions being the same, due to the Index's different type of lenses used; text is a lot clearer in the Index for example. The Pimax I don't really notice too much of a difference in clarity but obviously the increased FOV adds a level of immersion. Unfortunately many applications struggle to support this fully and you get a lot of rendering issues as most games are designed for the typical FOVs, which could change in time. The AR cameras in the Index are far greater than the Vive Pro's as well, the difference between a blur or being able to make out text, but this is insignificant if you're not interested in the pass-through mode or AR features. The comfort of the Vive Pro is much worse as well imo, although to its credit having a dedicated microphone mute button and volume slider on the headset itself is a good quality of life change that most of the other headsets do not have.

If Vive Pro 2 can address these issues then it could be a really good headset, but from my experience just the base specifications don't represent enough of what you'll be getting. There seems to be an arms race with a lot of HMDs with resolution being the main measurement, but the quality of the lenses and the technology used is very important, and thus far I haven't been impressed with what HTC have provided to signal them out above others. Personally, I would not buy a headset just because it advertises higher resolutions and non-typical resolutions even cause significant performance issues depending on the software as scalability is not 1 to 1 where even the Index with a lesser resolution increase has significant performance drops compared to Oculus devices, depending on the application of course.

EDIT: Also to add, eye tracking is a nice feature with the original Vive Pro Eye, and the implications of foveated rendering are interesting, but it's little more than a researcher's play thing at the moment. Typical consumer usability is very limited, and in my experience anything Tobii makes is very unstable and I struggle with all sorts of driver related issues through multiple of their eye tracking products. You aren't missing much from not having it right now other than the prospect of future proofing.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Kurtino:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

The Pimax Super is 2560x1440 per eye (although the 200 FOV is nice). The Vive Pro 2 is 2448x2448.


Both are $800, and the Vive Pro 2 is $50 off right now with a promo code, so its actually cheaper. I don't really care that much about controllers, as I primarily intend to use it to play Star Citizen, for which I have dual joysticks and rudder pedals. No plans to get eye tracking (although I wish they'd start using in-HMD eye tracking soon).

https://pimax.com/5k-super-3/

Ah I see, I hadn't looked at the Vive Pro 2's specs but just the 5K tag. What about the Pimax 8k then? Presumably more expensive and without audio so the Vive Pro2 would be further worth it I suppose.

As someone who's tried multiple VR headsets as a VR researcher, I have access to a Pimax 5K Plus, an Index, a Vive Pro Eye, and a Rift CV1 right now. The visual quality between the Vive Pro and the Index is quite significant, despite the resolutions being the same, due to the Index's different type of lenses used; text is a lot clearer in the Index for example. The Pimax I don't really notice too much of a difference in clarity but obviously the increased FOV adds a level of immersion. Unfortunately many applications struggle to support this fully and you get a lot of rendering issues as most games are designed for the typical FOVs, which could change in time. The AR cameras in the Index are far greater than the Vive Pro's as well, the difference between a blur or being able to make out text, but this is insignificant if you're not interested in the pass-through mode or AR features. The comfort of the Vive Pro is much worse as well imo, although to its credit having a dedicated microphone mute button and volume slider on the headset itself is a good quality of life change that most of the other headsets do not have.

If Vive Pro 2 can address these issues then it could be a really good headset, but from my experience just the base specifications don't represent enough of what you'll be getting. There seems to be an arms race with a lot of HMDs with resolution being the main measurement, but the quality of the lenses and the technology used is very important, and thus far I haven't been impressed with what HTC have provided to signal them out above others. Personally, I would not buy a headset just because it advertises higher resolutions and non-typical resolutions even cause significant performance issues depending on the software as scalability is not 1 to 1 where even the Index with a lesser resolution increase has significant performance drops compared to Oculus devices, depending on the application of course.

EDIT: Also to add, eye tracking is a nice feature with the original Vive Pro Eye, and the implications of foveated rendering are interesting, but it's little more than a researcher's play thing at the moment. Typical consumer usability is very limited, and in my experience anything Tobii makes is very unstable and I struggle with all sorts of driver related issues through multiple of their eye tracking products. You aren't missing much from not having it right now other than the prospect of future proofing.

I've been watching several videos about this this morning, and I may end up passing on the Vive after all, because I didn't realize that I'd need to get the full kit with base stations (previously I had thought I could get away with just getting the HMD and a single controller), so i won't even be able to take advantage of the promo right now. The full kit is $1400. Furthermore, it doesn't support eye tracking yet (though there may be a Vive Pro 2 Eye at some later date).

Since the buy-in is actually closer to $1400, I think I'd rather go with the Samsung Odyssey G9 for now and wait for light-field HMD's (CREAL and Hovitron are supposed to have something next year).

[Kurtino]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

I've been watching several videos about this this morning, and I may end up passing on the Vive after all, because I didn't realize that I'd need to get the full kit with base stations (previously I had thought I could get away with just getting the HMD and a single controller), so i won't even be able to take advantage of the promo right now. The full kit is $1400. Furthermore, it doesn't support eye tracking yet (though there may be a Vive Pro 2 Eye at some later date).

Since the buy-in is actually closer to $1400, I think I'd rather go with the Samsung Odyssey G9 for now and wait for light-field HMD's (CREAL and Hovitron are supposed to have something next year).

I would wait for a HMD that's designed for gamers and heavily advertised as such. There are a lot of HMDs that feature particular features or very high specifications, but they're mostly for business use and not really geared towards the typical consumer. Either that or settle for an Index which still to me seems the best overall high-end setup for VR, that is if you don't mind replacing the controllers every time they break. Unless you have use for it outside of gaming (designer etc) you'll run into a lot of compatibility issues if the majority of the market isn't using what you're using. The Vive Pro and Pro Eye were never really advertised towards typical consumers, so I'm not sure if they're changing their direction now with the Pro 2, but the asking prices struggle to make them competitive.

And damn that monitor is as expensive as the VR headsets lol. Not a fan of aspect ratios outside of 16:9 due to incompatibilities myself but sounds like you're an enthusiast looking for a premium experience. Hope your purchase goes well!

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Kurtino:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

I've been watching several videos about this this morning, and I may end up passing on the Vive after all, because I didn't realize that I'd need to get the full kit with base stations (previously I had thought I could get away with just getting the HMD and a single controller), so i won't even be able to take advantage of the promo right now. The full kit is $1400. Furthermore, it doesn't support eye tracking yet (though there may be a Vive Pro 2 Eye at some later date).

Since the buy-in is actually closer to $1400, I think I'd rather go with the Samsung Odyssey G9 for now and wait for light-field HMD's (CREAL and Hovitron are supposed to have something next year).

I would wait for a HMD that's designed for gamers and heavily advertised as such. There are a lot of HMDs that feature particular features or very high specifications, but they're mostly for business use and not really geared towards the typical consumer. Either that or settle for an Index which still to me seems the best overall high-end setup for VR, that is if you don't mind replacing the controllers every time they break. Unless you have use for it outside of gaming (designer etc) you'll run into a lot of compatibility issues if the majority of the market isn't using what you're using.

And damn that monitor is as expensive as the VR headsets lol. Not a fan of aspect ratios outside of 16:9 due to incompatibilities myself but sounds like you're an enthusiast looking for a premium experience. Hope your purchase goes well!

I've been waiting for an HMD that is 4K or higher before I pull the trigger on it, which is why the Vive caught my eye. I know the Pimax already exceeds that resolution, but something about it seems off to me.

That said, I think light fields will be better in the long run, so I might as well wait until that becomes available and just upgrade my monitor for now (I already use the Samsung CHG90 49" - there's nothing else like ultrawide out there short of VR - so I just want a resolution increase). I was hoping that getting VR might preclude getting the monitor since it's so expensive, but the more I look into it the more I'm convinced I should wait for light fields.

[Kurtino]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Originally posted by Kurtino:

I would wait for a HMD that's designed for gamers and heavily advertised as such. There are a lot of HMDs that feature particular features or very high specifications, but they're mostly for business use and not really geared towards the typical consumer. Either that or settle for an Index which still to me seems the best overall high-end setup for VR, that is if you don't mind replacing the controllers every time they break. Unless you have use for it outside of gaming (designer etc) you'll run into a lot of compatibility issues if the majority of the market isn't using what you're using.

And damn that monitor is as expensive as the VR headsets lol. Not a fan of aspect ratios outside of 16:9 due to incompatibilities myself but sounds like you're an enthusiast looking for a premium experience. Hope your purchase goes well!

I've been waiting for an HMD that is 4K or higher before I pull the trigger on it, which is why the Vive caught my eye. I know the Pimax already exceeds that resolution, but something about it seems off to me.

That said, I think light fields will be better in the long run, so I might as well wait until that becomes available and just upgrade my monitor for now (I already use the Samsung CHG90 49" - there's nothing else like ultrawide out there short of VR - so I just want a resolution increase). I was hoping that getting VR might preclude getting the monitor since it's so expensive, but the more I look into it the more I'm convinced I should wait for light fields.

You're right about the Pimax. While it technically has the highest resolutions and FOV, it fails in almost every other department. The build quality feels awful and everything about it just screams cheap production. The strap I received from the 5K Plus was in a separate box and you just attached it to the HMD like it was a wrap around your head, rather than being built into the headset.

The software itself is awful as well. They've stolen the UI from SteamVR and just plagiarised it all over, but the device requires you to setup the boundaries within their software, then within SteamVR, so you have two tracking setups. You can imagine the issues this runs into. Often full reboots of the headset were required to just get it to do basic tracking.

Personally even SteamVR is horribly lacking, and it wasn't until the latest versions where they started to slowly catch up to Oculus. Despite people's distaste for Facebook, in my experience, their headsets, software and ecosystem are the best all-rounders. Although I do not have a Quest 2 (I really should for research purposes), I've only heard nothing but great things about it even with the communities heavy bias against Facebook, and it's by far the most sold VR HMD right now.

I'm biased obviously, but I love VR and I think the experiences now are enough to fully immerse people; looking inside the Index or the Rift S still looks incredible and wearing a Pimax with a higher resolution and FOV doesn't detract from that. 3D depth is amazing and if done correctly can really bring things to life. The biggest thing VR needs right now is more games and software for people to consume. I think the headsets are in a good place and improvements should come from the quality of lenses and processing techniques (screen-door effect, foveated rendering, etc), wireless technologies, and comfort/weight. Pushing for higher resolutions isn't really that impressive because 1) hardware can't keep up usually resorting to lowered SS or other graphical trade-offs and 2) games are not being designed for 4k resolutions in mind, they're being designed for Oculus headset resolutions and anywhere near them. We're only just pushing for 4K resolutions with PC monitors running at 60hz and trying for 120/144, and the latest nVidia technology should help with that but it's still an ongoing process.

The arms race for higher resolutions with VR headsets seems pointless to me and only used to attract consumers because it's the most obvious thing that makes a headset sound better than another one. There's a lot more to them and I hope that the market starts to balance itself out and tackle other areas such as tracking quality or controller innovations, rather than just increasing a number that doesn't really tell you much about the overall experience you'll get. PSVR managed to produce a higher fidelity headset through the use of better designed lenses, despite the resolution not matching the original PC HMDs.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Sure, that all makes sense, but I have a target in mind: Star Citizen in VR at highest settings possible (minimum 4K). Whatever HMD set I get will have to meet these requirements for me. Don't care too much about other games, but considering the high bar I'll have to cross for Star Citizen, I'm not worried about it. If I can get 4K (or higher) in Star Citizen VR, it will be a while before most other games catch up to that. That's what I've bee holding out for.

[Kurtino]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Sure, that all makes sense, but I have a target in mind: Star Citizen in VR at highest settings possible (minimum 4K). Whatever HMD set I get will have to meet these requirements for me. Don't care too much about other games, but considering the high bar I'll have to cross for Star Citizen, I'm not worried about it. If I can get 4K (or higher) in Star Citizen VR, it will be a while before most other games catch up to that. That's what I've bee holding out for.

Heh, if you're waiting for Star Citizen then, by the time it's out, we might actually have hardware and VR headsets that can run it! Last time I tried one of their alphas I barely even got 40 fps at 1080p with a 2080ti.

[Ai Dings]

you got a strong pc than...

[Tusk]

If star citizen is your goal, you need a couple more years :D 3090 is not reaching 60fps on 4k resolutions maxed out. If you want a 4k VR headset, even if it's not per eye, would at least quarter your FPS, and playing VR at ~40 fps, but even at optimistic 60 fps it's motion sickness city.

And this why I just can't understand the push for high resolution VR devices, when we don't have the hardware to use it in a responsive way for gaming. I know VP2 is for businesses mainly, but other HMDs are trying to compete as well.

To me native built-in Face tracking, eye tracking, full body tracking, better hand tracking controllers, and 2k/144hz display with deep blacks would be much preferable than the current race to highest resolution possible, as there's not really any point if I have to use 25% SS to be able to experience anything currently.

All that said I do love my Index, and couldn't have made a better purchase when it released

[El Duderino]

^This. Star Citizen in VR is going to be a rough ride. Last I saw that running at 1080p it was pretty framey. Maybe on a rtx4090.