Constant spawning of enemies needs to go. Now.

[Uchidan]

If there were enemies that were spawning them that you could kill, that would be fine. But just spawning enemies for the sake of spawning enemies is not fun at all. You should totally be able to clear a floor and then pick up items you missed or whatever.

While you're here. Game also needs gestures really bad. Let us be allowed to point, give a thumbs up, etc. I swear the trailer showed gestures, but now all you can do is make lines. I want to see everyone's hands all the time and allow them to make gestures...thats what VR is all about.

[Maximum James]

I disagree. The spawning monsters make decisions on how to progress and how much time to spend in one spot very important because you don't want to get cut off or surrounded and that is a large part of what makes the game challenging and fun.

[Maximum James]

By the way, I think it's kind of funny actually because I ended up setting the board to top-down view and I was thinking I could play this just as easily on the desktop without really missing anything, so this is the least VR, VR only game I think I have.

However, I think if I could lie down in bed on my back, but still see the board with my helmet, that might be a pretty relaxing way to play. Kind of a polar opposite to most VR games where you're jumping around the room smashing your fingers against the walls.

I would love a game like this but a first person gauntlet style game with full combat physics where everyone starts beating the crap out of monsters. Maybe a bit like LFD2, but with more hand to hand and less need for automatic fire.

[Uchidan]

Originally posted by Maximum James:

I disagree. The spawning monsters make decisions on how to progress and how much time to spend in one spot very important because you don't want to get cut off or surrounded and that is a large part of what makes the game challenging and fun.

This can be achieved still and not have constant respawning mobs. More difficult levels that have more enemies and smarter AI, that should be how it's challenging...just respawning enemies for the sake of it is lazy imo.

[ManCannon]

I am 100% with you. To me, part of the satisfaction of a dungeon crawl is eliminating the opposition. While my friend and I played two player, we started staying apart from eachother and blocking off site lines so enemy's couldn't respawn. This tactic wasn't necessary to progress, but it made the floors go quicker because we weren't constantly being surrounded by rats and goblins and whatnot.

There is nothing fun or satisfying about spending turn after turn clearing out trash mobs in a game where you have two actions per turn.

[MayorWatt]

I think clearing a dungeon would be great and the preferred mode. I've taken my time because healing is at a premium and after a couple downs, you don't respawn. I've only had a chance to play a few hours, but its frustrating to be tactical only to have things spawning seemingly all over the place and then open a door and its like a zerg rush. Still, love the game, can't wait for more and I haven't had much of a chance to get back in the seat.

[VI]

I disagree, keeps the game interesting and fun.

[Yeyo]

fully agree, the game stupidly pushes you to find the key and run for the door and not visiting all the rooms and enjoying the dungeon.......never seen such mechanic in board games as infinite spawning.......

[TheOrigin]

I have no problem with endless spawns.. but the amount of enemies seem kind of unfair. If i play skirmish, my 3 ppl are OWERWHELMED by 10-20 creatures all the time. Espescially on maps with open lines of sight. It seems the whole map is aggroed then.

The enemie hp scale (1-4 hp if you play a single character, 5-10hp if you play a full group), but the numbers of enemies is constantly high. If you have bad luck you find yourself in front of a priest (who endlessly spawns cultists on top), a spider and a giant slime (which also spawns slimes). Worst of them being the plague rat which spawns rat nests all over the place and these spawn rats every 3 turns.

This has to be adjusted badly.

[Ivara Ara]

Originally posted by TheOrigin:

I have no problem with endless spawns.. but the amount of enemies seem kind of unfair. If i play skirmish, my 3 ppl are OWERWHELMED by 10-20 creatures all the time. Espescially on maps with open lines of sight. It seems the whole map is aggroed then.

The enemie hp scale (1-4 hp if you play a single character, 5-10hp if you play a full group), but the numbers of enemies is constantly high. If you have bad luck you find yourself in front of a priest (who endlessly spawns cultists on top), a spider and a giant slime (which also spawns slimes). Worst of them being the plague rat which spawns rat nests all over the place and these spawn rats every 3 turns.

This has to be adjusted badly.

Never had issues with the summoner enemies, only when the game feels like scaling up the difficulty and pop out 5-6 elementals+ 3 or 4 mauraders. Only then does it become quite the big issue, if you are having issues with the summoner enemies you are not focusing your targets down accordingly.

[TheOrigin]

Originally posted by Ivara Ara:

Originally posted by TheOrigin:

I have no problem with endless spawns.. but the amount of enemies seem kind of unfair. If i play skirmish, my 3 ppl are OWERWHELMED by 10-20 creatures all the time. Espescially on maps with open lines of sight. It seems the whole map is aggroed then.

The enemie hp scale (1-4 hp if you play a single character, 5-10hp if you play a full group), but the numbers of enemies is constantly high. If you have bad luck you find yourself in front of a priest (who endlessly spawns cultists on top), a spider and a giant slime (which also spawns slimes). Worst of them being the plague rat which spawns rat nests all over the place and these spawn rats every 3 turns.

This has to be adjusted badly.

Never had issues with the summoner enemies, only when the game feels like scaling up the difficulty and pop out 5-6 elementals+ 3 or 4 mauraders. Only then does it become quite the big issue, if you are having issues with the summoner enemies you are not focusing your targets down accordingly.

How do you "focus down" a giant slime (22hp), priest (12hp), skirmisher (12hp) and a giant rat(18hp) with 3 ppl? Tank? 1 turn to attack, 1 turn to replenish armor. Mage .. ridicilous damage output. Archer - 6dmg per turn (non crit).

I didnt say that this is the scenario all the time but if you are unlucky you become easily owerwhelmed. And that needs to be adressed.

[ploppo]

Probably needs a game-play option to allow a user to either enable or disable spawning. Seems the best option to suit everybody.

[Montaigne]

Originally posted by ploppo:

Probably needs a game-play option to allow a user to either enable or disable spawning. Seems the best option to suit everybody.

I agree. The option to have different game modes to turn the spawn on or off might be way to please all play styles.

[isu-kun]

Removing the continual spawning would unbalance the game. Then you're encouraged to just clear the stage and then pick up all the loot at the end, which really makes the shop pointless. It also changes the tactic to just "run away and funnel enemy groups through doorways" since you know you'll always be safe backtracking. This game is not hard enough to justify dumbing it down that much. If you're really struggling, you're not using your cards correctly or playing to your teammates strengths. The game is structured so you don't need to horde most of the cards you get. Use the ones that are useful, discard the ones that aren't to get the extra cards for the party and use the gold at the end to buy more for the shop for the next floor. Floor 2 gives you so much gold, you shouldn't have any problems buying whatever you need for the boss level.

And TheOrigin, your examples aren't really great. Priests don't repeatedly spawn cultists like that and a King slime has to sacrifice it's attack to spawn a single slime, which in a 3 Player game can be taken out in one hit. The King Slime can also be instakilled with a bottle of lye. I've only ever seen Scab Rats place at most two rats nests. Once again, it requires them to sacrifice an action to do it and the nests take 3 turns to spawn anything after which they're just high HP doorstops. What they spawn are three rats who more often than not just run around randomly without attacking anybody, can be killed in one hit (if they don't kill themselves in slime or poison pools), and do very little damage. In all honesty, I'd be happier if the game actually worked the way you're describing it. It might present some challenge if they had synergistic enemy AI that actually applied pressure to the players.

There are so many broken mechanics in this game once you get to know them. Strength potions working for projectile attacks, Hunter's Mark stacking the damage bonus with multiple uses, coin flip, enemies taking multiple hits through poison, smaller enemies just killing themselves, charming monsters to attack each other, befriending Elven Hounds with the bone, ballista cheese, having a rogue go stealth and stand in a doorway to force enemies to reroute or backtrack, placing dummies, chaining pots, stunning heavy hitters, so many options for managing groups of enemies and giving yourself breathing room.

[krayzkrok]

I think I've done 7 full runs so far, and each one had many moments which looked like we were done for, but we worked a way through it and survived. The balance seems remarkably good for this "skin of your teeth" feeling of survival right now, although that could just be because we're only good enough to make it feel that way. Grabbing all the chests and gold in the dungeon should be a risk, you make a choice - do you escape or do you risk encountering some nasty wandering monsters? Clearing the dungeon totally should probably be an option if people want it though. I would like to see more options for setting up games, to give a group more control over how they'd like to play it. You could have no spawning, dark spawning (the default), or spawn points that you have to destroy, etc.

[Uchidan]

Originally posted by isu-kun:

Removing the continual spawning would unbalance the game. Then you're encouraged to just clear the stage and then pick up all the loot at the end, which really makes the shop pointless. It also changes the tactic to just "run away and funnel enemy groups through doorways" since you know you'll always be safe backtracking. This game is not hard enough to justify dumbing it down that much. If you're really struggling, you're not using your cards correctly or playing to your teammates strengths. The game is structured so you don't need to horde most of the cards you get. Use the ones that are useful, discard the ones that aren't to get the extra cards for the party and use the gold at the end to buy more for the shop for the next floor. Floor 2 gives you so much gold, you shouldn't have any problems buying whatever you need for the boss level.

And TheOrigin, your examples aren't really great. Priests don't repeatedly spawn cultists like that and a King slime has to sacrifice it's attack to spawn a single slime, which in a 3 Player game can be taken out in one hit. The King Slime can also be instakilled with a bottle of lye. I've only ever seen Scab Rats place at most two rats nests. Once again, it requires them to sacrifice an action to do it and the nests take 3 turns to spawn anything after which they're just high HP doorstops. What they spawn are three rats who more often than not just run around randomly without attacking anybody, can be killed in one hit (if they don't kill themselves in slime or poison pools), and do very little damage. In all honesty, I'd be happier if the game actually worked the way you're describing it. It might present some challenge if they had synergistic enemy AI that actually applied pressure to the players.

There are so many broken mechanics in this game once you get to know them. Strength potions working for projectile attacks, Hunter's Mark stacking the damage bonus with multiple uses, coin flip, enemies taking multiple hits through poison, smaller enemies just killing themselves, charming monsters to attack each other, befriending Elven Hounds with the bone, ballista cheese, having a rogue go stealth and stand in a doorway to force enemies to reroute or backtrack, placing dummies, chaining pots, stunning heavy hitters, so many options for managing groups of enemies and giving yourself breathing room.

100% agree to disagree. As people explained above, the best option would be to allow an option for instant spawning or not. The shop isn't pointless if you don't pick up items/cards that you need/want, and they could have less loot on lower levels.

This "game is easy" attitude though isn't helpful. The game may be easy for you, but others may find it difficult. Or others may just want to clear dungeons like tons of other games let you do. Constant respawning enemies is lazy design imo and it seems like I am not alone in this thinking. If I knew this was just a wave shooter/fighter I wouldn't have bought it.