Demo thoughts

[Shadow_Actual]

After playing the demo for fifteen hours and change and completing two campaigns, I have some thoughts on the game.

On one hand, that every faction has the same tech tree makes sense since they're all on one planet, but it also makes the factions much less distinct, which seems like kind of a step backwards after Gladius.

Now, I get why you would include sandstorms in desert terrain, but they seem to last forever, and are so dense that I can't even make out the hex grid or the movement range markers beneath them, which seems a tad excessive.

An unupgraded Crusader actually does less damage per turn than a Missile Squads, which doesn't seem quite right. Presumably the Crusader gets better with upgrades, but those aren't in the demo. Also, having a singular unit be named in the plural seems strange, but is presumably just a misspelling.

Having city tiles display what has been built on them and buildings from different factions having different models is really cool and I really like it. Shame you couldn't do this in Gladius, but eh, engine and budget limitations.

Units having voices now is really cool, but the limited number of barks available gets kind of grating after a while. While I would of course prefer something like Tiberian Twilight or Red Alert 3 where unit voices are concerned, I recognize that this is and must be a minor concern compared to the rest.

No Artefact equivalents? At least not in the demo. It was a neat idea which made the end-game of Gladius more straightforward because they'd add up to the point where your units have half again as many hit points as the enemy's, but I could see that you might not want to put them back specifically because they get kind of game breaking when you have a lot of them.

The AI seems to overbuild units to the point that they can't pay their upkeep, meaning that they deal half as much damage per attack as they should, making for intimidatingly huge armies which mostly present a fairly minor offensive threat. Maybe tweak the AI's values so they don't build more troops than they can maintain?

That's all I've got for now. Solid 8/10, greatly anticipating the full release.

[Shadow_Actual]

Pretty please allow Assault Troopers and Praetorians to throw grenades like Militants do. They may be improved variants, but being able to smoke an enemy out of cover, or deal a telling blow to a hard target, is always handy.

Wild speculation regarding the Crusader's upgrades: armour and a machine gun are confirmed, but perhaps a rangefinder to increase accuracy and thus damage, a second barrel if we're feeling daring. Maybe even a third? Or a rotary cannon that spews out half a dozen shots per attack? Nah, too silly. Improved ammo for better AP, perhaps?

While the game sending me spooky whispers during gameplay adds a bit of spice to the proceedings, having it do so using names off my friends list sort of breaks my immersion.

And please add one or two more upkeep-reducing upgrades to the Fallen Soldier's research tree? ^_^

[Eric W]

Great points. I'll tag on with some feedback of my own.

I would very much second the OP on the voices. Some of them got very repetitious and annoying after a while. (The "We can't stay here" one was the one that really got to me, for some reason.) Maybe better would be something very basic like, "Infantry ready" or "tank company here" for 80% of the clicks with something more elaborate only 20% of the time.

I like the ability to focus your army in more than one direction. Gladius does this well--as the Space Marines, for example, you can make your army a strong vehicle or a strong infantry army, so you have some flexibility. But all the units are specific to the Space Marines, which is nice. In Zephon some of that difference is watered down. I'd rather do the units more like Gladius does, and have fun playing the different factions with their own unique strengths and challenges.

I also agree with the Crusader tank. I was excited to see what it could do, but it turned out kind of meh compared to the dependable missile squads. Of course, the tank is armored and the squads are squishy, so there is a nice trade off there, so maybe it is just a situation of managing expectations somehow.

I like certain terrain features generate strong neutrals occasionally. It made the landscape more alive.

The story choices are nice. I kind of wish they would have more impact on the factions in the game, though. For example, I choice the outcome that favored the buggy faction (can't remember the name), and they were grateful, but it didn't help my relationship with them in the game. it would be nice if there were some real consequences.

The faction diplomacy added a nice dimension to the game that Gladius doesn't have. Several times in my last play through one of my neighbors occasionally declared war on me occasionally before asking for peace later, and I was forced to make difficult decisions on how to balance managing this potential future thread while conducting an active total war against a common enemy.

I really like the atmosphere and lore. It reminds me a bit of Armageddon Empires, which is high praise indeed.

I can't wait to buy the full version!

[TK-FKU]

I would also like to add some thoughts:

Units in bunkers or HQs don't do anything for the defence which seems odd to me. They should add more guns or firepower; maybe just with a range of one tile.

The techs for different factions (algae, cyber) shouldn't be available directly from the start. It would be more fitting if they would be unlocked when e.g. the player makes an alliance with the related faction or when you have killed or researched units of that faction like in X-Com.

Dreameater or how that unit is called taking over purely mechanical units like Sentrys, Wardens and so on also doesn't make sense to me. Or that such robot like units have moral and can lose it doesn't make sense to me.

But all in all I like the game and am looking forward to the release.

[Shadow_Actual]

Agreed, Niemand, units in bunkers or HQs should definitely be able to lend their weapons to the defense, even if their range is reduced.

Faction tech would depend a bit, I'd say; for factions like the Furtive Tribunal or the Emulated Mind, having the faction tech available from turn 1 makes sense since those leaders are heavily associated with those factions. Not so for the human-focused leaders like the Fallen Soldier or the merchant guy, though.

Dreameaters are a huge threat and this is proper, actually. For machine units to have morale could be thought of as their operators or controlling AIs realizing that they're losing and thus losing effectiveness. As for machines getting mind controlled, well, there's nothing saying that a cybernetic brain can't be affected by psychic powers. *shrugs*


Aside from that, I've noticed a quirk in the AI which is bugging me, namely that the Anchorite feels like he's trolling me by constantly dropping Fog on things I'm fighting when we're allied, which does trivial damage to them but makes it much harder for me to kill them because the fog drops ranged damage by a full third. Irritating.

[Eric W]

I really like the idea of faction tech only being available by unlocking them somehow. Perhaps by the narrative story choices. Maybe allying with the Anchorite, for example, makes the story choices that could unlock that tech more likely.

[TK-FKU]

Originally posted by Shadow_Actual:

Not so for the human-focused leaders like the Fallen Soldier or the merchant guy, though.

That's what I meant. I only played as Fallen Soldier so far.

[Shadow_Actual]

Originally posted by Niemand:

That's what I meant. I only played as Fallen Soldier so far.

Oh, me too! That regen is really handy.

One think I like about the game is that every leader's headquarters building looks different. The merchant guy's resembles a gigantic frickin' mansion, while the Heartless Artisan's looks like a high-tech lab or hotel, appropriately enough. ZEPHON's HQ looks like a massive sphere floating inside a huge dish, while the Anchorite's and the Fallen Soldier's are more practical towers.

Also, it is clear from the outset that the Emulated Mind is not well, what with how broken her dialog is... but when you kill her, her dying words are a confession that she never got over dying the first time, and at least the second will be instant. Then she begs you to take care of her people. Poor girl... :(

[Umie]

played the demo for a little while. i'm a sucker for anything sci fi, so the setting feels really cool. the writing seems a bit odd at times. pace seems a bit slow and boring in the beginning, but i suppose these types of turn/hex-based games are all like that. will keep an eye on this one. always looking for more sci fi.

[Shadow_Actual]

The new update adding messages from leaders whose cities you've destroyed is a neat touch. I like it. I also like being able to go directly to choosing another technology after research finishes, but the button to go back to the map is sometimes absent. Bug?

Missile Teams are still named in the plural for some reason. I do feel that Assault Troopers enter the game a tier too late, but that's just me. And the Emulated Mind not having a special tech to extend her city radius to four tiles seems like an oversight.

Speaking of the Emulated Mind, I'm not at all clear on what happened in her ending. She talks about 'something coming up through the code stream and wants to talk', but she doesn't want to talk to it, and then the narrative just ends. Did she crash, or something?

I don't like the Fallen Soldier's ending. I really hope that it's a lead-in to the post-game crisis that's been mentioned, and not some kind of stupid gotcha.

I really like the air units that've been added, they really do add a lot to the game's strategy.

[forumcrybaby]

for you guys who think the voice lines are annoying feel free to fire up a game of Red Alert

COMMANDERCOMMANDERCOMMANDER
ACKNOWLEDGEDACKNOWLEDGEDACKNOWLEDGED
VEHICLEREPORTINGCVEHICLEREPORTING

[TalElmar]

I absolutely agree on the artifacts. In general, the map feels way too empty. It was kinda similar in Gladius, here we at least have neutral settlements, but the points of interest are still not there.
I was looking forward to some ancient sealed bunkers where you can uncover secret techs or units, crashed spacecraft you can interact with (not just as resources), some crazy biomass nodes, etc. This would bring the world to life a lot imo. I hope something like this is planned for the full game, as demo understandably is lacking in story department.

[Shadow_Actual]

Originally posted by biofail:

for you guys who think the voice lines are annoying feel free to fire up a game of Red Alert

What does that have to do with anything? You might not remember this, but Red Alert was released more than twenty years ago.

Originally posted by TalElmar:

I absolutely agree on the artifacts. In general, the map feels way too empty. It was kinda similar in Gladius, here we at least have neutral settlements, but the points of interest are still not there.
I was looking forward to some ancient sealed bunkers where you can uncover secret techs or units, crashed spacecraft you can interact with (not just as resources), some crazy biomass nodes, etc. This would bring the world to life a lot imo. I hope something like this is planned for the full game, as demo understandably is lacking in story department.

There are the Abkhans, but yes, you are correct that the map is kind of empty at the moment. I would imagine that the expansions will work to change this.