Faction diversity

[Flipkik]

I know this isn't a new topic, but after playing the demo I really want to like the game. But it looks and feels to me like there is very little difference between the factions and the difference grows smaller the longer the game goes.

Am I missing something here or do all the faction feel very similar. If so are there plans to make them more distinct?

[RindFisch]

I agree. The main draw of Gladius (aside from the IP) was the wildly different factions. Here' everything is one.
The developers seem to relent at least a little bit, by making different leaders start with different "race" techs and encourage using specific races. Still sad everything is just thrown together, though. Maybe they'll see the light and actually split the factions up by release.
It makes the tech tree really unwieldy as it's basically 3+ tech trees merged into one.

[Vermel Silk]

I agree here. My first impressions of this game was a very warm and comfy upgrade from Gladius, until I noticed how everyone had the same units... got me bored real fast as that meant there wont be real unit diversity in late game as everyone will toss the best units at each other... making it look bland and boring as the same stuff fires at each other in prolonged battles. - In gladius, u had some unique units and/or mechanics to overthrow a stalemate. Here it is more like.. rush the best/most units before the other can react in time. The tactical choice of a specific faction and its personal units are gone here. Gladius had that in spades which I loved.

[GetUrAssToMars]

Have to agree. The faction play felt pretty rough around the edges. I get the idea that everybody starts off a bit different but in the end they all begin to play the same. Tech tree does not give you much wiggle room for different play styles either. The choices begin to feel pretty arbitrary towards the mid game. I do get the impression we are just experiencing a very incomplete form of it though.

[gurdion]

And delete technology of passive favor grow with npc factions, and can create quest system like in AOW:Planetfall to rise favor, cause its too simple to befriend them. And need to change dreamers ability not to convert any unit, but to convert biological, cause zephon faction cant fight them at all, and I have a full map of converted units and heroes, that are under control of Anchorite faction.

[Mazer]

It seems as they almost did it for the sake of distancing themselves from inevitable Gladius comparisons. You know, this Gladius reskin namecalling and so on... So, maybe they effectively abolished factions per se, exactly because they are so distinct in Gladius. If so, I think it was a pretty unfortunate move as they won't escape any comparisons, regardless, and they managed to distance themselves from one of the strongest Gladius appeals.

Also, I consider the leaders concept as very anti-climactic. This is way too abstract for a player to get behind. So, you tell me that I'm playing 'Fallen Soldier'... wait, excuse me, who am I playing exactly? Leaders are just sketches of proper factions that should've never left the drawing board and entered production.

[Jaeger]

I haven't gotten particularly deep into any one demo playthrough, but the leader/faction differences feel a step closer to Civilization; if that makes sense?

Some factions in Gladius were more distinct than others, but they all had unique rosters and tech trees.

Here, the leaders/factions are more about offering mechanics that incentive certain builds and strategies. Which is less distinct but not nothing and lets you be a bit more adaptable. Have fun trying to win as the Imperial Guard if RNG has declared you get all the worst ore spots on the map!

A bit more uniqueness in the form of a unique unit or maybe building would be nice, though. Maybe the quests and other features to be added later will address that. Faction choice has some impact on diplomacy so far, at least.

[Flipkik]

I think removing/limiting factions acces to techs not of their affinity would be good.

Maybe then, to reinforce faction difference within the same affinity, make the single faction tech per tier extra impactfull and maybe give each faction a unique unit. (not actually sure if a unique unit would even be needed)

[Jaeger]

Looking over the tech trees of the playable factions, the earlier access to their respective affinity techs isn't insignificant. We don't have the complete tech tree, but some specialized units are inaccessible to the other factions in the current build.

I remember some of the meta discussion in Gladius arguing that it was best to specialize your research along certain lines (infantry vs. vehicles, etc.) since the game would usually be decided well before you had time to research everything.

That will probably be the case for Zephon as well, arguably even more so with additional resources like algae and chips to account for.

Factions have a unique technology for every tier as-is. Some of them are flashier than others, but it generally involves boosting or unlocking more of their unique mechanics in some way. With only part of the tech tree available, we'll need to see how that pans out, though.

[Flipkik]

I don't know, I just think at least a slightly stricter limitation might help them feel more distinct.

You're right that maybe it shouldn't be removed but a maybe a slightly stricter limitation?

[Sneaky_Koala]

Totally agree. It seems to be an ongoing trend. Age of Wonders 4 did the whole 'you can be anything you want to be' which totally negates races/factions having any impact whatsoever. It just feels bland and even though I bought it on release I soon stopped playing.

[Esxhaton]

Originally posted by Sneaky_Koala:

Totally agree. It seems to be an ongoing trend. Age of Wonders 4 did the whole 'you can be anything you want to be' which totally negates races/factions having any impact whatsoever. It just feels bland and even though I bought it on release I soon stopped playing.

100% agree. When everything can be special, nothing feels special.

[Pink Elephant]

They could also diversify it a bit by making special tech-for your non-preferred faction units to differentiate them

E.g. yes the basic Rifleman Soldier is probably best in Fallen Soldier but imagine if you pick The Voice faction and make the Rifleman (or just Barracks units in general) to have low regen and/or immunity to bleed

[Comrade Point]

I disagree, in the earlier demos I might have agreed it's like one gladius faction, but as they fill out those tech trees with tons of options I start to view this game more like civilization than like Gladius, with less differences but more overall depth.

[Mothball]

Honestly, I feel like it's a bit of a trope lately to have games where you can customize a lot, or they share research trees and units in-between each-other. Age of Wonders 4 is a good example. Where you can mix and match any race and tomes and etc. While I like Age of Wonders 4, it didn't have the staying power of the previous games in my opinion.

The idea I assume being "Infinite customization!", "You can mix and match techs from different trees to go down any path you want!"

Which is neat on paper but I feel like in practice it makes most factions feel homogeneous and stifles creativity because people tend to just go down optimal paths. It makes the factions feel less unique because any faction can get any unit really if they want. Replay-ability is hampered. Unless you purposefully limit yourself to only going down one specific tree. I remember reading somewhere that a Faction/Race/Etc's uniqueness comes more from what they can't do, or their drawbacks as opposed to 'doing everything.' Cons and Pros.

Of course, the demos are pretty early and we don't have the full tech tree or anything, so perhaps I will be proven wrong as the game fully comes out. I'm a huge fan of the aesthetic and setting they got going for this game, and some gameplay improvements, but I sincerely hope they find a way to have every faction really feel entirely unique. Particularly fond of all the little trade dialogue it feels very unique and tailored to the character you're playing as. Though the AI is a little spastic with how much it seems to desire peace.

Because at the moment the only difference between them is some passive bonuses. Of course the entire game is probably pretty deep into development so I doubt they can uproot everything they have planned, but I really do think emphasizing uniqueness between the factions besides passive numbers, would go a very long way.

For some reason one game that really comes to mind when I think of absurdly unique 4X factions is Endless Legend.

tl;dr - I agree. I hope they find a way to make factions feel more unique and diverse.

[FateWeaver]

One thing I don't like about the leaders, currently, is that they already start out with their affinities.
It feels like i am being railroaded down each of their respective affinity paths, before the game has even started.

The store description made it seem like each leader was more of a clean slate, but with already pre-existing personalities, and interests.
With the roleplaying player deciding their's, and their people's, fate.
But they already seem quite locked in.

It wouldn't make much sense for the Cyber affinity leaders to suddenly embrace The Voice, or Humanity(one is already an AI for crying out loud), nor would it make sense for The Voice affinity leaders to suddenly abandon their religious fanaticism for science and rationality...
The Fallen Soldier's lore already lends him to embracing The Voice eventually, even though he is Humanity affinity, for why stay an atheist when an Alien God has already gifted you with Immortality?

I don't know, I guess I was expecting more normal human leaders who would get gradually swayed towards aligning with the various factions over time, rather than already being well on their way towards fully aligning.
None of them seem human anymore, from the very beginning.
- The Emulated Mind is already ascended to being an AI.
- The Fallen Soldier might as well be considered an eldritch abomination.
Sometimes finding himself pondering if he is an angel seems to already push him down that religious Voice path....
- The Furtive Tribunal seem to have already been turned into an eldritch abomination, a psychically linked hive-minded witch trio prophet of The Voice(sidenote: classic Sisters of Fate inspiration).
- The Heartless Artificer has already abandoned her humanity in favor of rampant AI fueled transhumanism.

I was kinda hoping our human leaders would gradually morph in appearance, like in
Civilization: Beyond Earth...
While starting off like normal humans, like the Hesitant Chieftess(not playable? Awwww, was looking forward to being a tribe of Mad Max road warriors), or The Honorable Aristocrat.
For me at least I felt a disconnect between the store page and what met me in-game, but that might just be me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, I like the game, looking forward to it releasing.