Even more feedback

[Siegfried Dubhy]

The general idea is fun, I want this game to succeed, it does scratch a specific itch in a way no other games do (it is simple and relaxing yet satisfying IMO).

1. Controls
It seems to be aiming for something like a quicker automation game without the annoying bits like feeding coal to smelters... BUT... it comes with its own set of chores, namely merging, splitting and crossing. Having them use components like containers and routers feels forced (it is probably the part that takes most manual interaction in the game so without it the game would be even shorter).

2. Balance
The production cost / sell value mechanic is decent, but hellishly unbalanced.
The money problem disappears as soon as you can start producing copper wires. You then go to x3, as soon as you get enough money you copy-paste the production line and connect to miners... rinse and repeat until you cover a full copper deposit and then the income is way too fast to actually exhaust it. Even lowering sell values wouldn't really sovle the problem, since you can always just leave the game in AFK overnight and have way enough money to proceed.

3. Content
The length... I kinda thought that all those "?" in augments, all the mention of circuit production, 3 colored circuits and all the items that were not yet unlocked would be a part of the demo. Instead they seem to be the scope of the full game.
Even with all those additions I can't see the game lasting more than a few hours, most of which would be waiting, because scaling up the factory is too tedious.

All in all, the game has potential but it needs quite a bit more love. Fingers crossed!

[Siegfried Dubhy]

One more thing that didn't sit well with me - the augments.
What the heck kind of numbers are those? +10% production? +30%? 25% chance for double production?
So you take a sand extractor which has 0.25/s production and you take a silicon furnace which takes 0.5/s - the ratio is pretty simple 2:1.
Now you add the upgrades... with +30% you end up with 0.357/s production and with the double chance you have 0.446/s.... How the hell do you calculate the ratio? 1.121:1? Wtf?

I honestly would simply not upgrade production/processing speeds to actually know how to calculate it all.

50%, 100%, etc... and no chance ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (this game is not about rolling critical hits but planning... or at least I think that's the idea)

[feydk]

Thank you for playing and for the feedback!

1. As for the merging/splitting/routing, well, that's the best approach I found while developing the game. All factory games have similar mechanics, and I suppose it's because it's difficult to do it any other way. At least that's what I found during these last 5 years of development.

2. Yes. Balancing is hard. The game isn't about making endless amounts of money, just enough to drive progression forward. I opted for the money economy because I myself was tired of having to "pay" for things with other materials (Factorio, Satisfactory, many others). I just wanted to try something new. And it will require substantial feedback to get the balancing right.

3. Indeed! The demo is in fact a limited version of what the full game will be. And no, it likely won't be a game that lasts tens of hours. It will be a reasonably short and casual experience.

4. Augments/ratios. Let me provide a little background info. Honestly, I don't care about ratios, and I prefer players to not think about ratios either, because that's one of the things that always annoyed me about other games. The constant min-maxing and calculating the correct ratios, looking up wikis, etc. I don't want any of that (unless it turns out the majority of players in fact want that). I know this goes a little against the genre trope, and I'm well aware that won't please the experienced factory genre players, but that's ok. This game isn't made for them.
But, having said that, of course I am interested in feedback like this. If the weird/missing ratios becomes a huge deal, I will gladly make the changes needed. I just need some help in doing so, so any concrete and well-considered suggestions for balancing are most welcome. I am just a solo dev with enough on my plate as it is, so I really need that help from players 😊

[Siegfried Dubhy]

Aight, now I see where you are coming from.

1. The first game that came to my mind when I saw Factory Magnate was Mindustry. So it pretty much was my benchmark when it came to expectations.
The merging/splitting/bridging there is done ideally IMO. 0 clunkiness, 0 tediousness, no clickfest when it comes to setting a splitter up - perfection ^^
Your current approach feels a bit overengineered. Like, I see that the container could take 2 inputs and have 2 outputs and thus become a balancer, but honestly, I'm not sure if there will ever even be a need for a balancer (especially looking at the other points you addressed).
Still, as I said, simplifying and streamlining this will most likely greatly reduce playtime.

2. This will be tricky. If simple recipe can make enough money to go easy, then there is no point in setting up a more complex line, especially since it will consume more resources.
I see 3 options, but I don't really like any of them.
First would be exponential cost of new machines and parts produced - but this would make it way too linear, you would always have to follow this new recipe -> turn to production lines -> make money -> destroy the production line -> new recipe -> and so on
Second would be to limit the income somehow... like item getting cheaper and cheaper the more of it you produce - but keeping production costs in place would make the game actually difficult (new game mode idea?)
Third would be making each building of the same type more expensive along with respective production costs... but again, this could suddenly make the player go bankrupt because they didn't notice a cash sink.

2a. BTW - I found it very confusing that buying and selling buildings was also considered in calculating income/expenses. IMO sales and production costs only would be better.

3. The game being a casual experience with no need for heavy braining to calculate the ratios is probably gonna be its strongest point (at least for me).
The game not being 500h long is also a good thing... for those there are indeed alternatives, but I feel I would like to spend something around 10-20h enjoying it.

4. This one is... well, I see your point, but you already are doing the ratio-game. Mining in 4s, smelting in 6s... So you need a 2:3 ... For now I think all the ratios were 1:1, 1:2 and 2:3 only - that's not bad, but honestly, if I augment copper mining - what should I do? Should I sell a few miners coz they are overflowing now? Should I rebuild the production line to make it more efficient? In that case I will need to calculate the hell out of it... and then I go with another level of the augment... and another... I would personally never get only 1 level at a time, I would max it before actually doing anything with the lines.
I feel that the current state brings more of a min-maxing issue than just having nice round numbers would. 1:1, 1:2, 1:2.5, 1:3, 1:4, 1:5, 2:3, 3:4, 4:5 - those feel good. I hate it when all those big automation games actually go with any other ratios, like 2:7, that's simply insane...
And well, I feel many people will just forego any sort of counting and go with a line of 1 mine, 1 smelter, 1 press, 1 wtvr and 1 hub. Just to avoid playing with merging/splitting and ratios. Sure they will waste some money, but they will probably notice that they can very easily scale it up and make big bucks.


So, all in all. I wouldn't say that this game is not for experienced factory builders. Some pleasant downtime is needed every now and then and this would be a perfect place to get it. But I believe you need to make a few adjustments simply not to scare them away.

I shall be watching ^^ Thanks and good luck!

[feydk]

Thank you again for this feedback. It's highly valuable for me. After having worked on this for almost 5 years, it's hard for me to stay neutral/objective on certain subjects, so it helps a lot with someone else's opinion.

Of all your points, all of which have given me something to think about btw, I think the one about augments and ratios is pretty important. If ratios are in fact so important, even for new and casual players, then clearly I must rethink some of the augments. Or keep them all and make the balancing changes needed for them to make more sense. I don't know which option I dread the most 😄