I love the game, but the forced restarts are questionable

[CaptainPOCK]

Being a rougelite, a shoot'em'up and a looter shooter, this was an immediate buy for me, no questions asked. About 8 hours in, I noticed something I just don't like that much. The forced restarts.

No spoilers here: After getting to specific points of the game, you just die. You can't prevent it. You could just not do the mission at all, but yeah, no progress there. All progress gone, all side-missions done for no reason. And this feels really unrewarding.

First run in, I didn't mind it. It was more of an introduction. So I didn't mind it as much. Second time was mildly annoying, third time however really got annoying. And I hate to ask, but how many more times will this happen before I actually finish the story and get the proper rougelite experience?

[Paramnesia]

I just bought this game so I'm not familiar with any mechanics yet.
But I've played multiple roguelikes and you are generally replaying a lot of content untill you master and finally beat the game.

[CaptainPOCK]

Originally posted by Gona Die RL Any Minute Now:

I just bought this game so I'm not familiar with any mechanics yet.
But I've played multiple roguelikes and you are generally replaying a lot of content untill you master and finally beat the game.

I'm familiar with the concept of dying eventually because your strength isn't enough. Either because not enough things unlocked, or not enough upgrades purchased... or getting really lucky with a run and doing it first or second try. But so far, I've only been having decent or good runs and eventually just being forced to restart because plot twist or something.

[Zelxios]

Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:

Originally posted by Gona Die RL Any Minute Now:

I just bought this game so I'm not familiar with any mechanics yet.
But I've played multiple roguelikes and you are generally replaying a lot of content untill you master and finally beat the game.

I'm familiar with the concept of dying eventually because your strength isn't enough. Either because not enough things unlocked, or not enough upgrades purchased... or getting really lucky with a run and doing it first or second try. But so far, I've only been having decent or good runs and eventually just being forced to restart because plot twist or something.

thats part of the story. i havent completed it yet but once you've stopped insta dying due to story it'll be fine later on

[Scyris]

Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:

Originally posted by Gona Die RL Any Minute Now:

I just bought this game so I'm not familiar with any mechanics yet.
But I've played multiple roguelikes and you are generally replaying a lot of content untill you master and finally beat the game.

I'm familiar with the concept of dying eventually because your strength isn't enough. Either because not enough things unlocked, or not enough upgrades purchased... or getting really lucky with a run and doing it first or second try. But so far, I've only been having decent or good runs and eventually just being forced to restart because plot twist or something.

I got the feeling its setup like that on purpose. As you often need a perk from the perk screen to get past certain story events, or at least that what it looks like.

[courtney]

Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:

Being a rougelite, a shoot'em'up and a looter shooter, this was an immediate buy for me, no questions asked. About 8 hours in, I noticed something I just don't like that much. The forced restarts.

No spoilers here: After getting to specific points of the game, you just die. You can't prevent it. You could just not do the mission at all, but yeah, no progress there. All progress gone, all side-missions done for no reason. And this feels really unrewarding.

First run in, I didn't mind it. It was more of an introduction. So I didn't mind it as much. Second time was mildly annoying, third time however really got annoying. And I hate to ask, but how many more times will this happen before I actually finish the story and get the proper rougelite experience?

Thank you for the feedback. There aren't very many forced breaks in the story campaign, though I understand that they are not your favorite thing even starting with the second one. Then, you can play the "opt-in roguelite" portion of it, basically like a full ARPG, without any forced breaks until you want to cash in your run and get more RP. Do you think it would feel better if, much like the 5 freebie RP you get for the first break, I gave the player escalating amounts of RP from each forced break?

[Turk]

A way to save more items would be nice. It kind of sucks just having one item to pass on and that is with RP spent. A stash like in any other ARPG would be wonderful.

[Mackhdo]

Instead of item i would prefer to keep some of the upgrade that require the more grind, those who need 100+ iron and more, would be a nice reward to keep some

[Mystra4]

First time was the station.
Second was the encounter.
Third is... Ah, the third is the last one.

So, 3 forced breaks.

[Scyris]

Originally posted by Mystra4:

First time was the station.
Second was the encounter.
Third is... Ah, the third is the last one.

So, 3 forced breaks.

Thats not too bad. I haven't seen the 3rd forced break yet, but the first 2 kinda make sense. Though I will admit the first time I got the first one I went "WTF?!?" as that one came out of no where. The 2nd one you sorta seen coming a bit before it actually happens.

[Sishiya]

I would encourage players, especially new players, to not focus on trying to farm and min/max gear until you're through the period of forced storyline breaks. The ARPG part can be better indulged in later, and bear in mind that several gear-manipulating mechanics are locked throughout the different Cycles in the story, so just play through that first.

I should also point out that, unless you somehow manage to unlock everything in the Reality Stream before the forced breaks are done...you're probably going to want to break yourself as that's the only way to gain the Reality Points needed to spend in the Reality Stream. Courtney mentioned before that this is meant to feel more in-line with Seasonal modes featured in various ARPGs; you break yourself, spend your RPs, then start a new cycle (season).

In short, try to forget the ways that the ARPG genre has programmed us and start learning to love The Vortex.

[Groom]

Originally posted by Mackhdo:

Instead of item i would prefer to keep some of the upgrade that require the more grind, those who need 100+ iron and more, would be a nice reward to keep some

Iron is easy to come by if you compare with other resources.

[Ferox_Stormdragon]

it feels like a story-based procedural gen mechanic and the reality points are like perma passives, kinda like diablo paragon points.

[CaptainPOCK]

Originally posted by courtney:

Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:

Being a rougelite, a shoot'em'up and a looter shooter, this was an immediate buy for me, no questions asked. About 8 hours in, I noticed something I just don't like that much. The forced restarts.

No spoilers here: After getting to specific points of the game, you just die. You can't prevent it. You could just not do the mission at all, but yeah, no progress there. All progress gone, all side-missions done for no reason. And this feels really unrewarding.

First run in, I didn't mind it. It was more of an introduction. So I didn't mind it as much. Second time was mildly annoying, third time however really got annoying. And I hate to ask, but how many more times will this happen before I actually finish the story and get the proper rougelite experience?

Thank you for the feedback. There aren't very many forced breaks in the story campaign, though I understand that they are not your favorite thing even starting with the second one. Then, you can play the "opt-in roguelite" portion of it, basically like a full ARPG, without any forced breaks until you want to cash in your run and get more RP. Do you think it would feel better if, much like the 5 freebie RP you get for the first break, I gave the player escalating amounts of RP from each forced break?

No real changes are necessary. I truly appreciate the passion you’ve put into the game, and as the developer, you have every right to stand by your design choices. But if I had to provide some thoughts...

The only two things I could think off are:
a) It might help to include a note that the story portion of the game doesn't require excessive farming. This could prevent players - particularly those familiar with the genre - from grinding sectors and side missions in hopes of progressing further, only to feel unrewarded when a forced restart occurs. I think this is where some frustration might occur.

b) A significant base RP multiplier upon reaching a forced restart could be interesting, though it's not strictly necessary. Something like a base x3 multiplier for hitting a "wall" might work.

b.1) Alternatively (or additionally), consider offering a small, meaningful upgrade after each successful forced restart. For example, rather than just allowing a dialogue change through the passive, players could receive a bonus like “+1 Item upon starting a new game.” This could add a bit more meaningful progress to each restart.

Other than that, the game is great the way it is. I would have to invest much more time to properly give feedback on specific portions of the game. This thread was more of a "this felt annoying" rather than "this is bad"

[Sishiya]

Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:

b.1) Alternatively (or additionally), consider offering a small, meaningful upgrade after each successful forced restart. For example, rather than just allowing a dialogue change through the passive, players could receive a bonus like “+1 Item upon starting a new game.” This could add a bit more meaningful progress to each restart.

To point to anyone else perusing this thread, there are significant mechanics that become available with each forced break as well that the player is going to want access to, such as the ability not just to rewrite dialogue, but gear (including making those larger pieces available for use which often provide a decent power boost. Later, players unlock the ability to extract a random affix from any piece of gear and to use those "essences" to custom build their own piece of gear for a chosen slot. Later still, access to a new tier of items. Even more later still, the ability to unlock "Aptitudes" which are analogous to character classes.

All the while, as players are earning RPs and increasing the meta stats, they're becoming stronger each cycle and opening up new options to play with as well (including the aforementioned "+1 item upon starting a new cycle".

Trust me, it's not just "oh, now there's a new opportunity to change the dialogue". :D

[CaptainPOCK]

It's interesting to know there is more for each campaign progress, other than the ability to change the dialogue. Although they sound more like indirect gameplay additions which can be used, but might be missed. At least from the sounds of it.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But considering I haven't noticed anything as of now, it seems logical that I would make that statement. So yes, even though there are changes, they don't seem impactful enough. They may later on once the player gets more resources by default, but as of right now, not much difference is noticed.

Some truth has to be told, I have rushed through the story up until now through unconventional means after the third restart, making me wish I could clear my entire profile beyond a simple character deletion.

Either way, the other point I feel like could still be added. You never know how much time one player might spend as "preparation" only to notice there is a wall which renders that preparation meaningless.