Exploration's Dead

[Butcher Bill]

I'm not entirely impressed with the direction the game has suddenly taken as of the big recent update. First of all, I've been on a ship combat and exploration drip for the past half decade, everything from this game, to Sailing Era, to Star Sector, and more, Why is this relevant? Because the developer put a shotgun in the mouth of the exploration aspect and pulled the trigger.

Prior to the update, the ingame world was one big interconnected cell that could all be explored even as lower lvl captain, but only if you had the skill and daring to do so. Now the world has been chopped up into like a dozen iddy biddy cells AND gated off from one another by these ludicrously difficult challenge stages where you have no choice but to fight waves of powerful enemies in one go to get through them.

I'm glad I didn't start a new game against the advice of the developer, because I'm struggling like hell against the endgame content even with Fishhead's ship, since I need to do a lot more grinding to train up a wizard and hunt down some useful ship upgrades. At least with a pre-update endgame ship and crew I can brute force my way through to areas that I used to be able to travel to freely even as an early game character, and had I used an early game character, I can only imagine the sheer amount of monotonous grinding I'd have to do entirely without the respite of being able to explore outside of the starting area; especially to maybe stumble upon some treasures that could give me a leg up.

That's why I say the developer has killed the exploration aspect of the game, because there's no freedom to explore the world anymore with hard barricades everywhere that disincentivises the curious player. Also, the new fast travel system means that my ship and crew could be on their last legs after a challenge run and instant transmission back to the home island for repair without consequence; totally trivializing the survival and resource management part of the game.

It wouldn't be so bad if the pre-update map stayed the same, and similarly sized additional areas were portioned off as they were developed (if only as a way to manage software demands). I don't even dislike the challenge stages, only the fact that they're mandatory. As of now though, what initially seemed like a 7-9 rated game is now more like 5-7, because even in spite of welcomed additions to the mid-endgame content and challenge; a big appeal of a game like this is just gone now. Huge development misstep.

I'll continue to give it a sporting chance, cause I still like that the combat is more fleshed out and difficult (and the thought of capturing one of the sexy new Red/Blue great galleons makes me hard), but this redesign of the game world is definitely making me reconsider my recommendation.

[Koor]

I think you're overlooking the benefits. As the creator said, the map shift is one that allows for easier future creation of new maps to explore. Instead of rebuilding the big map, or having to edit it to squeeze more things in, he can instead just create stand alone cells and drop them in. He could also create random encounters that pop up during your travels instead of just having everything visible on one big map.

I like the changes, and I did listen and start a new game. Starting a new game doesn't delete your old one, you can always still load that save. I didn't want to have to play through the intro yet again, but it seemed fast enough as long as i skipped cutscenes.

[jardar]

Originally posted by Butcher Bill:

I'm not entirely impressed with the direction the game has suddenly taken as of the big recent update. First of all, I've been on a ship combat and exploration drip for the past half decade, everything from this game, to Sailing Era, to Star Sector, and more, Why is this relevant? Because the developer put a shotgun in the mouth of the exploration aspect and pulled the trigger.

Prior to the update, the ingame world was one big interconnected cell that could all be explored even as lower lvl captain, but only if you had the skill and daring to do so. Now the world has been chopped up into like a dozen iddy biddy cells AND gated off from one another by these ludicrously difficult challenge stages where you have no choice but to fight waves of powerful enemies in one go to get through them.

I'm glad I didn't start a new game against the advice of the developer, because I'm struggling like hell against the endgame content even with Fishhead's ship, since I need to do a lot more grinding to train up a wizard and hunt down some useful ship upgrades. At least with a pre-update endgame ship and crew I can brute force my way through to areas that I used to be able to travel to freely even as an early game character, and had I used an early game character, I can only imagine the sheer amount of monotonous grinding I'd have to do entirely without the respite of being able to explore outside of the starting area; especially to maybe stumble upon some treasures that could give me a leg up.

That's why I say the developer has killed the exploration aspect of the game, because there's no freedom to explore the world anymore with hard barricades everywhere that disincentivises the curious player. Also, the new fast travel system means that my ship and crew could be on their last legs after a challenge run and instant transmission back to the home island for repair without consequence; totally trivializing the survival and resource management part of the game.

It wouldn't be so bad if the pre-update map stayed the same, and similarly sized additional areas were portioned off as they were developed (if only as a way to manage software demands). I don't even dislike the challenge stages, only the fact that they're mandatory. As of now though, what initially seemed like a 7-9 rated game is now more like 5-7, because even in spite of welcomed additions to the mid-endgame content and challenge; a big appeal of a game like this is just gone now. Huge development misstep.

I'll continue to give it a sporting chance, cause I still like that the combat is more fleshed out and difficult (and the thought of capturing one of the sexy new Red/Blue great galleons makes me hard), but this redesign of the game world is definitely making me reconsider my recommendation.

I don't think I will return to the one big world, as it gives a lot of new opportunities as "Koor" says with this new system. Another thing it gives is a more narrow path with increasing challenges for "first-time players", which was a problem with the old map. Not saying it is perfect now, or that it couldn't have worked how it was - but I find this new approach very efficient for expanding the world whenever it needs it and to make a better experience for the player.

That said. I understand your feedback and appreciate it! The exploration part is more locked now as you point out, and I will try to work more on that for the next major update "Fortress & Exploration". Not sure if I managed to meet your expectations and everyone else, but if you continue to give feedback I will at least have a good chance to get some of what you need.

[Thisha]

I'm a bit disappointed of the update too as I'm not that much into the fighting which I find quite hard, at least I could enjoy the exploration part of the game without it.
Now, it feels I'm being very forced into the battles which - don't get me wrong - I have been doing, I have better ships.

I really don't see why this change would have anything to do with making enlarging the map easier. It's not that people can build their own island...

But...
I will give a fresh restart a try and see if the changes actually contribute towards the battling progress system.

Maybe it could be an option to have the player choose between a battle or a grind/fetch/slaughter quest line? That way, more people with different play styles could enjoy this game.

[jardar]

Originally posted by Thisha:

Maybe it could be an option to have the player choose between a battle or a grind/fetch/slaughter quest line? That way, more people with different play styles could enjoy this game.

Yes, I always wanted to find a way for players to also have the option to enjoy a more "pacifist way" in Seablip. Not sure if it will be possible, but I know this is less true now than when it was one big map. But finding optional ways for battles will require some work since I don't want it to be just skipping the battle..

The priority is battle and ship expansion first. But I think a more peaceful solution will come closer to 1.0 when the content is larger so I can play around with more items/crafting elements, main story, and "faction relations" that I hope to implement at some point.

[Ajvar the Boneless]

I think this is a good change overall because it actually opens up a lot of potential. We may get new, bigger and even randomly generated maps (at least I'm hoping).

This also takes the overall gameplay into an FTL direction which is a very good thing in my book.

[Butcher Bill]

Originally posted by jardar:

I don't think I will return to the one big world, as it gives a lot of new opportunities as "Koor" says with this new system. Another thing it gives is a more narrow path with increasing challenges for "first-time players", which was a problem with the old map. Not saying it is perfect now, or that it couldn't have worked how it was - but I find this new approach very efficient for expanding the world whenever it needs it and to make a better experience for the player.

That said. I understand your feedback and appreciate it! The exploration part is more locked now as you point out, and I will try to work more on that for the next major update "Fortress & Exploration". Not sure if I managed to meet your expectations and everyone else, but if you continue to give feedback I will at least have a good chance to get some of what you need.

If a player wants a linear path of scaling difficulty in a game like this then that’s what a main quest is for, or hell, I thought the bounties did a pretty good job of that since they got progressively harder and as you bulked up to challenge each one.

I do get your reasoning and the upsides to what you’ve done, but the thing is, a big appeal to sailing even in real life is the freedom and adventure that travelling and exploring the open ocean brings. That’s the problem here, the pieces you’ve chopped the world into are way too small, restrictive, disconnected compared to what was there before, and the prior version’s emersion/genre appeal suffers grievously as a result.

A compromise I’d offer though is that you ought to have had less but larger cells or again kept the original map largely as is BUT THEN added extra areas as separate maps all for the reasons you’ve laid out. Also, maybe not have every area have a challenge mode to unlock them, because why am I fighting the red navy to get to the red navy capital when the red navy is neutral and doesn’t bother me unless I attack them?

No matter what you do however, since we’re talking shop, I would highly suggest making transitioning to a new area dependent on which part of the map boundary you contacted (NW to go to the battlefield, E to go to Red Nation, etc). Having the map screen come up no matter where I go is extremely jarring, and makes everything feel all that more disconnected.

I don’t know if you’re familiar with a game called Underrail, but it’s an RPG whose massive map is composed of hundreds of smaller cells with no open world connecting them. However, it never actually feels small and restrictive because travelling from one cell to the next is near seamless, and you’re only rarely gated off from certain areas that require you to hit some progression markers.

In the end, I truly hope you don’t take any of this the wrong way, because I really liked what I saw when I played the prior version, and I want more games like it out there and finding success. Again however, I just have some pretty humungous gripes with how things have changed, and honestly to me it feels like a downgrade; not nearly as good of an impression as the prior version gave me.

[Sun Kenshin]

Only complain I have here is about the 4stars challenges. Well it is doable for the pirate and the purple ship as an enemy. When it came to red/blue/undead, it was hell. Even worst, my luck is very poor. When I had an advantage, a mermaid/kraken came to my ship every damn time. Not once but twice....

The enemies had 7-8 crews include the wizards that almost casts spell from the start..... Might be because I am a noob but this is too much....lol

[Butcher Bill]

Originally posted by Sun Kenshin:

Only complain I have here is about the 4stars challenges. Well it is doable for the pirate and the purple ship as an enemy. When it came to red/blue/undead, it was hell. Even worst, my luck is very poor. When I had an advantage, a mermaid/kraken came to my ship every damn time. Not once but twice....

The enemies had 7-8 crews include the wizards that almost casts spell from the start..... Might be because I am a noob but this is too much....lol

Oh the galleons are simply mental, like I don’t know how you could reliably defeat them besides getting lucky enough to cap one yourself or training up wizard that can spam the more broken spells.

[Sacheverell]

Personally I love the cell map designs. Infinitely expandable, yes please! Feels more exploration-enticing imo. Sure, a single giant map can exist but even real-world sea exploration is pretty damn unsafe. This feels like a great mechanics/QoL compromise from the first map.

[Joe Cool]

My main feedback on this is that I wish we didn't have to undergo these challenges to unlock a map cell.

Also I don't really like how when you retreat from a challenge you take a hit to crew morale. That leaves us with two bad options if the challenge ends up being too hard.

Option 1: Retreat and lose crew morale
Option 2: Die

Thankfully I haven't noticed any real penalty to dying besides having to restart at home.