Anyone else feel Japan is weak?

[GoulashMike]

I've been working on the masteries with Japan, and I'm finding that going toe to toe with any military, the Japanese consistently get melted. I am not understanding what makes them a solid choice to play with. Anyone getting the same experience or have tips?

[Lord Haart]

Hi. Well.....

I've noticed a discussion circulating regarding Japan's perceived weakness in the game, and I wanted to share some thoughts on the matter. While it's true that Japan might seem challenging to play for some, I believe there are nuances and strategies that can turn the tide in their favour.

Firstly, it's essential to consider that Japan is a unique faction with distinct strengths and weaknesses. The faction excels in economic aspects, boasting efficient resource gathering and strong economic bonuses. The key lies in leveraging these strengths while mitigating their weaknesses.

Economic Strengths:

Shrines and Resources: Japan's Shrines offer a unique way to gather resources efficiently, allowing for a robust economy. Strategic placement of these shrines can significantly boost resource income over time.

Samurai and Archers: While Japanese units may not have the same raw power as some other civilizations, the Samurai and archers are highly effective in certain situations. Samurai can perform exceptionally well against enemy cavalry, and well-microed archers can devastate enemy infantry.

Adaptable Strategies:

Hit and Run Tactics: Given Japan's emphasis on mobility, consider adopting hit-and-run tactics. Use your faster units to engage enemies and retreat before the opposing force can respond effectively.

Tech Advancements: Invest in tech advancements that complement Japan's playstyle. For instance, the Ashigaru Spearman upgrades can provide a solid frontline against enemy infantry.

Navy Dominance: Japan has a strong naval focus, and controlling the seas can provide significant advantages. Utilize the navy to secure coastal resources, control trade routes, and limit enemy movement.

Team Play and Coordination:

Supporting Roles: Japan can shine in team games by focusing on a supporting role. Utilize your economic strength to assist teammates with resources, allowing them to focus more on military production.

Alliance Strategies: Forge alliances strategically. Work with teammates who have strengths that complement Japan's weaknesses, creating a balanced and formidable force.

As we are still in the early stages of exploring the new factions, it's essential to keep in mind that mastering a civilization takes time. The meta is likely to evolve as players experiment with different strategies and discover new ways to maximize each faction's potential.

In conclusion, while Japan may seem challenging initially, embracing their unique strengths and employing adaptive strategies can lead to success on the battlefield. I look forward to hearing more insights as the community continues to explore and unravel the intricacies of Age of Empires IV.

[Antpile]

I've been having a good time with them.

Samurai in age 2 are stronk since, as with most t2 men at arms, they care little about arrows and xbows aren't on the field yet. Onas are a unit many are sleeping on. They're very good. Think of them as melee archers, sort of. Or maybe cavalry without horses?

They are fast. They swing fast, giving them deceptively good dps. they start with only 6 damage, but you can get them up to 9 in feudal due to Japan's extra melee attack upgrade and melee bannermen.

It says on the card that archers counter them, but they don't really. They are fast enough and have enough damage that they will catch those archers and then they will absolutely shred them. Also, they are WAY faster than those archers, which means if he does have an archer blob they can't handle you can just run away with them. They never have to engage in an archer battle they can't win.

They swing over the head of the samurai in front of them, serving a bit of an archer role, except with more damage due to fast attack speed and Japan's extra melee attack upgrades.

Play them 1 TC until a good bit into the game. Get stone while aging up to feudal for the daimyo manor upgrade. It gives you an instant villager and gives a big boost to farms anywhere near it. With further upgrades the town centers basically become keeps, so they can be used to lock down resources if you have the stone to boost them.

Most importantly, get aggressive. Hit feudal and upgrade that town center. Then start making Onas. Go harass him with 2 or 3 Onas here and there, coming in from different sides while you continue to macro up. By 7 or 8 minutes your economy should be rocking enough to start pushing him with samurai/bannerman/ona blobs. If you are against a knight civ, dial back slightly on Ona production to mix spears in with your samurai.

[James3157]

Anyone new to these civilizations at least in my opinion should probably play with them against the AI on easiest difficulty settings before using them on multiplayer or harder difficulty settings. Especially civilizations that have a difficulty setting of more than one star such as Jean D'Arc (three star difficulty) for example and others. Also, since none of the new civilizations surprisingly get Art of War either just another reason why you probably should get yourself more familiar with them on before attempting multiplayer (unless if maybe a pro player who is bored with other civs) or playing on harder difficulty settings against the AI. One thing I noticed as well that civilizations seem to be more complicated and harder to learn when playing on AoE IV than AoE II: DE.

[Lord Haart]

"Anyone new to these civilizations at least in my opinion should probably play with them against the AI on easiest difficulty settings before using them on multiplayer or harder difficulty settings"

- SO agreed.

[James3157]

Originally posted by Lord Haart:

"Anyone new to these civilizations at least in my opinion should probably play with them against the AI on easiest difficulty settings before using them on multiplayer or harder difficulty settings"

- SO agreed.

Yes, It also sucks that none of the new civilizations (especially Japanese and Byzantines) get Art of War either from this dlc.

[Sikamikanico]

you must be kiddin...they are the stongest ones...with 4 lvls on enchantments on their weapons when the others only have 3

[ARCAGNELL0]

As I've said in another thread, I've mostly played the new Chinese variant, and the civ I've beaten the most was the Japanese, by using fast castle Shaolin Monk spam.

My win streak eventually ended when I fought a Japanese main for the second time after we discussed how spamming samurais or Yumi Ashigaru was not the way against Shaolin Monks, so he beat me with a pure Onna-Bugeisha rush since I have no way of catching or running away from those pesky women since Shaolin Monks are only slightly faster than an MAA while Onna-Bugeishas are almost as fast as a Knight.

Japan is not weak, I strongly feel it's more of a matter of figuring out matchups and not immediately resorting to farming under the TC as a food source

[TowerRushEnjoyer]

I play a lot of Japanese, gold 3 ish now. I don’t think they are weak.

[Third]

Love seeing the couple people in this thread who’ve realized that Onna-Bugeisha are awesome. Beastyqt posted his build order and strategy for Japan and it uses Bugeisha heavily. At first glance at their stats a lot of people (including me) felt like “what are they even good against?”, but the real question turns out to be what AREN’T they good against.

Well, massed Knights (especially with Jeanne, and especially supported by archers I think?) are a problem that requires spearmen to deal with, and sufficiently big archer masses are kinda spooky so I get mangos against them, but overall Bugeisha are surprisingly very strong (because of the damage output from their high attack speed plus high range plus multiple early damage bonuses for japan) on top of having the luxury of mostly picking their battles (because they’re fast).

[Lambert198]

How do you deal with Jean D'Arc feudal Knight/Archer pressure as Japanese ? 5 games and 100% loss rating so far for me ..

[Lord Haart]

Jean D'Arc:

Plusses:

Strong Archer Line: Jean D'Arc's Archer line can be potent in the Feudal Age, pressuring opponents from a distance.
Versatile Military: The ability to field both Knights and Archers provides flexibility in army composition.
Standard Economy: Jean D'Arc has a standard economy, neither particularly strong nor weak.
Minuses:

Vulnerable Economy: If Jean D'Arc invests heavily in military early on, their economy might be vulnerable to counter-attacks.