Relic’s Resource Crunch: Save AoE4 First!

[Hellstorm]

Relic Entertainment’s down to an estimated 100–120 employees, a rough guess based on their pre-2023 size of around 200, slashed by layoffs—121 in May 2023 and 41 in April 2024—offset by minimal hires to keep projects afloat.

That shrinking headcount’s part of why they dropped Age of Empires III support after the Definitive Edition; they couldn’t sustain it alongside Company of Heroes 3 and AoE4. Another chunk of their resources got funneled into Earth vs. Mars, a quirky Relic Labs experiment due this summer that’s splitting their already thin team.

They should be pouring those limited resources into fixing what they’ve got, like AoE4’s busted AI that’s been a mess since Sultans Ascend or CoH3’s lingering balance issues, instead of chasing niche side projects.

Fans deserve polished games over gambles when staff’s this tight—thoughts?

[erb]

Forgotten Empires got tapped to be lead dev, relic handles engine only now

So we can stop beating the relic dead horse now, deal?

[Hellstorm]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von erb:

Forgotten Empires got tapped to be lead dev, relic handles engine only now

So we can stop beating the relic dead horse now, deal?

your claim’s off—Relic’s still leading AoE4 development, as confirmed in the March 10, 2025 Knights of Cross and Rose announcement, not just handling the engine. Forgotten Empires isn’t taking over, so your “dead horse” excuse doesn’t hold up.

LOL

[erb]

Source?

Because the blog post doesn't reference Relic a single time, the concept art doesn't have a credit for Relic (first time between main game and other DLC), and the dev credit puts Relic second to last.

All signs point to Relic still being involved but not being the main dev.

[Lotor13]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von erb:

Forgotten Empires got tapped to be lead dev, relic handles engine only now

So we can stop beating the relic dead horse now, deal?

+1

Lets focus on the game itself, not the company managment speculations

[Hellstorm]

Claim: Relic’s down to an estimated 100–120 employees, from ~200 pre-2023, after layoffs of 121 in May 2023 and 41 in April 2024, offset by minimal hires.

Evidence: The layoff numbers come from reports on Relic’s staff cuts. The 121 layoffs in May 2023 were widely covered when Relic was still under Sega, and the 41 layoffs in April 2024 were announced shortly after Relic went independent with Emona Capital’s backing—check GamesIndustry.biz, “Sega confirms layoffs at Relic Entertainment,” May 2023, and IGN, “Relic Entertainment goes independent, cuts 41 jobs,” April 2024. The pre-2023 headcount of ~200 is an estimate from Growjo’s 2023 company profile on Relic, and a 2019 Daily Hive article pegged them at ~250 with plans to grow to 330, supporting a similar range. The 100–120 estimate assumes minimal hires, inferred from their ongoing projects like AoE4’s Knights of Cross and Rose and CoH3’s Fire & Steel, which need a functional team.

Claim: The shrinking headcount is part of why they dropped Age of Empires III support after the Definitive Edition.

Evidence: Relic’s reduced support for AoE3: DE is evident from its update history—the last major content drop was in 2023, per the Age of Empires official site patch notes, with only minor fixes since. Steam player counts also show AoE3: DE at ~2,000 concurrent players, lagging behind AoE2: DE (~15,000) and AoE4 (~5,000), suggesting Microsoft shifted focus to bigger titles—see SteamDB charts for concurrent player data, updated daily.

Claim: They couldn’t sustain Company of Heroes 3 and AoE4 alongside Earth vs. Mars, a quirky Relic Labs experiment due this summer.

Evidence: Earth vs. Mars is confirmed as a Relic Labs project for summer 2025, per Relic’s February 2025 strategy update on their official site, where they outlined focusing on smaller experimental titles. X posts from early 2025 previews have called it “low-effort,” reflecting player skepticism—search X for “Relic Earth vs. Mars low-effort” to see the sentiment.

Claim: They should be pouring limited resources into fixing AoE4’s busted AI (broken since Sultans Ascend) and CoH3’s lingering balance issues.

Evidence: AoE4’s AI issues since Sultans Ascend (Nov 2023) are well-documented—players on Steam forums and X report villagers getting stuck in woodlines, with no major fix in the October 2024 patch (12.0.1974), per the Age of Empires blog patch notes. CoH3’s balance problems are reflected in its 56% positive Steam reviews, with users citing multiplayer issues since launch—check Steam’s Company of Heroes 3 review page for player feedback.

[Hellstorm]

@erb, congrats on becoming the forum’s gossip king, spreading that Forgotten Empires takeover nonsense like it’s gospel—guess the rumor mill’s working overtime! Meanwhile, the internet’s right there for you to fact-check, if you can figure out how to use it without tripping over more fanboy speculation. Relic’s still leading AoE4 dev, not just “handling the engine.” Want proof? Check the “Knights of Cross and Rose” announcement on the Age of Empires blog, dated March 10, 2025—Relic and World’s Edge are credited, no FE in sight. Or see Relic’s own February 2025 strategy update on their site, where they confirm ongoing AoE4 support alongside CoH3 and Earth vs. Mars. Even X posts from Relic’s official handle on March 11, 2025, hype their AoE4 work. Keep digging for that “Relic’s out” scoop, champ—maybe you’ll find it in the same fantasy land where the AI doesn’t crash!

@LoTor13, I hear ya—focusing on the game over company drama makes sense, like ignoring the comet in Don’t Look Up. Speaking of, you a fan of that Leo DiCaprio? I’m just trying to enjoy my maps without Sultans Ascend’s bugs cratering my vibe.

[NoobusMaximus]

Where did you get the idea that Relic was working on Age of Empires 3?

[FloosWorld]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hellstorm:

That shrinking headcount’s part of why they dropped Age of Empires III support after the Definitive Edition

Relic is unfamiliar with the Bang Engine used by AoE 3. Forgotten Empires and Tantalus Media work on AoE 3 and AoM.

[qUINKORF]

Relic no longer work for DLCs they are engine tweaks only, Crusader DLC is mainly made by Forgotten Empires

[qUINKORF]

Relic did a significant part in Sultan AScend this is true as per their employee, but when asked if they work on Crusader dlc and such they dodge the question and we had 1 year without content

now FE is done with AOM they will focus on AOE2 and AOE4

[qUINKORF]

https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/1bpq3je/comment/kwxmobg/

[Buntkreuz]

So what i take out of this is....AoE4 is an Indie Game now x)

[Hellstorm]

I’m doubling down on this thread because the community’s feedback has made one thing clear: AoE4 could be so much more if the basic functions actually worked. The reality is, we’ve been asked to keep buying DLC that feels incomplete, while core issues—some of which have lingered for years—go unaddressed. That’s not okay. If these foundational problems were fixed, the player base would grow massively, and AoE4 could reclaim its spot as a top-tier RTS. We need to rally together and demand these changes now—let’s make this thread the spark that pushes for real improvements!

Here’s exactly what we’re asking for:

A Better Mod Store: The current mod system is clunky and hard to use. A proper mod store with better navigation, search functionality, and support for modders would let the community create and share content more easily, keeping the game fresh and exciting.

Enhanced Game Lobby with More Host Controls: Multiplayer lobbies need better tools for hosts—options to manage players, adjust settings on the fly, and save custom setups. This would make online play smoother and more enjoyable for everyone.

Advanced Game Settings (AGS) for Functional Replays: We need official AGS to enable working replays, customizable AI behaviors, and more. Replays are essential for learning, sharing strategies, and growing the competitive scene, but they’re broken right now.

Smarter AI Behaviors: The AI needs to be more dynamic—building walls, launching coordinated attacks, and adapting to player tactics. This would make single-player and skirmish modes challenging and fun, bringing back players who’ve drifted away.

These aren’t pie-in-the-sky requests—they’re basic quality-of-life fixes that should’ve been in the game from the start. We’re not asking for new content; we’re asking for a game that works as it should. If the devs see how much we care, they’ll have to listen. Let’s make this thread impossible to ignore—share it on Reddit, Discord, and every AoE4 community you’re part of. Add your own ideas for fixes below, and let’s keep this conversation alive until we see real change.

[Hellstorm]

its just so dam close, she needs a good buffin' not more duct tape

[erb]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hellstorm:

Claim: Relic’s down to an estimated 100–120 employees, from ~200 pre-2023, after layoffs of 121 in May 2023 and 41 in April 2024, offset by minimal hires.

Evidence: The layoff numbers come from reports on Relic’s staff cuts. The 121 layoffs in May 2023 were widely covered when Relic was still under Sega, and the 41 layoffs in April 2024 were announced shortly after Relic went independent with Emona Capital’s backing—check GamesIndustry.biz, “Sega confirms layoffs at Relic Entertainment,” May 2023, and IGN, “Relic Entertainment goes independent, cuts 41 jobs,” April 2024. The pre-2023 headcount of ~200 is an estimate from Growjo’s 2023 company profile on Relic, and a 2019 Daily Hive article pegged them at ~250 with plans to grow to 330, supporting a similar range. The 100–120 estimate assumes minimal hires, inferred from their ongoing projects like AoE4’s Knights of Cross and Rose and CoH3’s Fire & Steel, which need a functional team.

Claim: The shrinking headcount is part of why they dropped Age of Empires III support after the Definitive Edition.

Evidence: Relic’s reduced support for AoE3: DE is evident from its update history—the last major content drop was in 2023, per the Age of Empires official site patch notes, with only minor fixes since. Steam player counts also show AoE3: DE at ~2,000 concurrent players, lagging behind AoE2: DE (~15,000) and AoE4 (~5,000), suggesting Microsoft shifted focus to bigger titles—see SteamDB charts for concurrent player data, updated daily.

Claim: They couldn’t sustain Company of Heroes 3 and AoE4 alongside Earth vs. Mars, a quirky Relic Labs experiment due this summer.

Evidence: Earth vs. Mars is confirmed as a Relic Labs project for summer 2025, per Relic’s February 2025 strategy update on their official site, where they outlined focusing on smaller experimental titles. X posts from early 2025 previews have called it “low-effort,” reflecting player skepticism—search X for “Relic Earth vs. Mars low-effort” to see the sentiment.

Claim: They should be pouring limited resources into fixing AoE4’s busted AI (broken since Sultans Ascend) and CoH3’s lingering balance issues.

Evidence: AoE4’s AI issues since Sultans Ascend (Nov 2023) are well-documented—players on Steam forums and X report villagers getting stuck in woodlines, with no major fix in the October 2024 patch (12.0.1974), per the Age of Empires blog patch notes. CoH3’s balance problems are reflected in its 56% positive Steam reviews, with users citing multiplayer issues since launch—check Steam’s Company of Heroes 3 review page for player feedback.

So in all of this downsizing it never occurred to you that you are offering the primary evidence to prove the point that Relic is no longer leading development as a result of their reduced size and focus on their own line of products??

So we agree then?