AoE 2 is better than AoE 4, do you agree?

[Klitiz Sixx]

AoE 2 is nostalgia!

[SvarogX]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Klitiz Sixx:

AoE 2 is nostalgia!

No. Not at all.

I find AoE4 to be better in every aspect.

AoE2 was great in its time, I loved playing it back in the day, but now its just a mess and lacking in every aspect, when compared to the much more up to date AoE4.

Which is quite obvious and logical, as AoE2 is decades old by now.

[KaBandha]

Not even close, aoe4 is the best

[NoobusMaximus]

Only in terms of aesthetics (partially - mainly because everything in AoE4 is modeled in real time, so you're not exactly looking at a painting). Also in terms of features, mod support, and SP content.

Gameplay-wise AoE2 is far inferior for me. There's just way more variety in AoE4. The gameplay is also less APM-intensive (even though I still feel like I'd need 120APM to do everything I want, but I've seen Platinum players with 60APM). Pathfinding is also much better, again because unit movement is modelled in a real tridimensional space.

[Soul Reaver]

you just answered your own question, nostalgia makes it better for you. for me i skipped 2 back then and i find 4 to be the better game overall

[woodsmanac]

Both good games.
Enjoying 4 now more then ever.
Do miss aoe2 4v4 pro death matches though.

[FloosWorld]

Both are good for different reasons although I prefer 3 over 4 as my 2nd favourite Age game. Having another game set in the middle ages just is weird when trying to play both games which fortunately doesn't happen with Gunpowder era ^^

Btw, the nostalgia argument is weird.

Ursprungligen skrivet av NoobusMaximus:

The gameplay is also less APM-intensive (even though I still feel like I'd need 120APM to do everything I want, but I've seen Platinum players with 60APM).

You might want to check out Viper's "LimitedViper" series then.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Neo92:

AoE2 was great in its time, I loved playing it back in the day, but now its just a mess and lacking in every aspect, when compared to the much more up to date AoE4.

Pathing aside it's still a great game and actually not really lacking "in every aspect". :) On the contrary, there are things the previous games had that still aren't in AoE 4.
For example, things I still miss in AoE 4 to this day are more stances than just stand ground, the option to save an MP game should it crash so you can just restore it or an editor that's easier to use than the current one. The AI in skirmish is also lacking the personality previous games had.
In these aspects, AoE 4 is still lacking compared to AoE 2, 3 and AoM.

But I'm sure, someday, they'll eventually add these things considering that 3 years later a MP pause was added. It just takes time.

[SvarogX]

Ursprungligen skrivet av FloosWorld:

Both are good for different reasons although I prefer 3 over 4 as my 2nd favourite Age game. Having another game set in the middle ages just is weird when trying to play both games which fortunately doesn't happen with Gunpowder era ^^

Btw, the nostalgia argument is weird.

Ursprungligen skrivet av NoobusMaximus:

The gameplay is also less APM-intensive (even though I still feel like I'd need 120APM to do everything I want, but I've seen Platinum players with 60APM).

You might want to check out Viper's "LimitedViper" series then.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Neo92:

AoE2 was great in its time, I loved playing it back in the day, but now its just a mess and lacking in every aspect, when compared to the much more up to date AoE4.

Pathing aside it's still a great game and actually not really lacking "in every aspect". :) On the contrary, there are things the previous games had that still aren't in AoE 4.
For example, things I still miss in AoE 4 to this day are more stances than just stand ground, the option to save an MP game should it crash so you can just restore it or an editor that's easier to use than the current one. The AI in skirmish is also lacking the personality previous games had.
In these aspects, AoE 4 is still lacking compared to AoE 2, 3 and AoM.

But I'm sure, someday, they'll eventually add these things considering that 3 years later a MP pause was added. It just takes time.

AoE4 has fullfilled that what most of us old players always wanted to see in AoE2.

Unfortunately the newer generation, thinks AoE2 is some rush and smash game.
Nah, it has always been about the cultures and uniqueness, in this AoE4 exceeds.

AoE2 is lacking a lot compared to AoE4, which is not surprising as its a much older game.

AoE4 AI is superior. No idea what you mean by lacking " personality ". lmao.

What they should add to this game is AI for a**oles who quit matches. Its ridiculous we stand there without a team mate, it cant be too hard to replace with AI.

[FloosWorld]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Neo92:

Ursprungligen skrivet av FloosWorld:

Both are good for different reasons although I prefer 3 over 4 as my 2nd favourite Age game. Having another game set in the middle ages just is weird when trying to play both games which fortunately doesn't happen with Gunpowder era ^^

Btw, the nostalgia argument is weird.



You might want to check out Viper's "LimitedViper" series then.




Pathing aside it's still a great game and actually not really lacking "in every aspect". :) On the contrary, there are things the previous games had that still aren't in AoE 4.
For example, things I still miss in AoE 4 to this day are more stances than just stand ground, the option to save an MP game should it crash so you can just restore it or an editor that's easier to use than the current one. The AI in skirmish is also lacking the personality previous games had.
In these aspects, AoE 4 is still lacking compared to AoE 2, 3 and AoM.

But I'm sure, someday, they'll eventually add these things considering that 3 years later a MP pause was added. It just takes time.

AoE4 has fullfilled that what most of us old players always wanted to see in AoE2.

Unfortunately the newer generation, thinks AoE2 is some rush and smash game.
Nah, it has always been about the cultures and uniqueness, in this AoE4 exceeds.

AoE2 is lacking a lot compared to AoE4, which is not surprising as its a much older game.

AoE4 AI is superior. No idea what you mean by lacking " personality ". lmao.

What they should add to this game is AI for a**oles who quit matches. Its ridiculous we stand there without a team mate, it cant be too hard to replace with AI.

Just to be clear: I am talking about AoE 2's Definitive Edition, not the indeed outdated CD or HD Versions.

Uh no, the "newer generation" doesn't think that because competitive play was part of AoE 2 since day 1 on MS Zone.
And well, if you prefer asymmetric design, AoE 4 indeed is the better game for you. In that regard I however prefer AoM and AoE 3 if I feel like playing asymmetric civs. :)
Also, I would be definitely more hyped about the things "us old players always wanted to see in AoE2" if I haven't already seen them in AoM or AoE 3. That's my 2nd problem next to using the same setting. :D

In which ways in your opinion is AoE 2 lacking? I listed a couple of features from AoE 2, 3 and AoM that AoE 4 still doesn't or only remotely has.

In the past games, the AIs were named after a leader of the faction they were playing, Greeks in AoE 1 e.g. could play as Alexander, Britons in AoE 2 as Harold Godwinson etc. In AoE 3 they took that to the next level and made the AI actively trashtalk you and each faction with about 45 minutes of speech for each civ.
AoE 4 is a step back in that regard as the AI is named "A.I. - [Insert Difficulty Level]". Additionally, they don't resign by themselves like they do in AoE 2 or 3 when they're at a disadvantage, instead you have to either fight them down to the last vill like in AoE 1 or fulfill one of the three conditions.

[SvarogX]

Ursprungligen skrivet av FloosWorld:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Neo92:

AoE4 has fullfilled that what most of us old players always wanted to see in AoE2.

Unfortunately the newer generation, thinks AoE2 is some rush and smash game.
Nah, it has always been about the cultures and uniqueness, in this AoE4 exceeds.

AoE2 is lacking a lot compared to AoE4, which is not surprising as its a much older game.

AoE4 AI is superior. No idea what you mean by lacking " personality ". lmao.

What they should add to this game is AI for a**oles who quit matches. Its ridiculous we stand there without a team mate, it cant be too hard to replace with AI.

Just to be clear: I am talking about AoE 2's Definitive Edition, not the indeed outdated CD or HD Versions.

Uh no, the "newer generation" doesn't think that because competitive play was part of AoE 2 since day 1 on MS Zone.
And well, if you prefer asymmetric design, AoE 4 indeed is the better game for you. In that regard I however prefer AoM and AoE 3 if I feel like playing asymmetric civs. :)
Also, I would be definitely more hyped about the things "us old players always wanted to see in AoE2" if I haven't already seen them in AoM or AoE 3. That's my 2nd problem next to using the same setting. :D

In which ways in your opinion is AoE 2 lacking? I listed a couple of features from AoE 2, 3 and AoM that AoE 4 still doesn't or only remotely has.

In the past games, the AIs were named after a leader of the faction they were playing, Greeks in AoE 1 e.g. could play as Alexander, Britons in AoE 2 as Harold Godwinson etc. In AoE 3 they took that to the next level and made the AI actively trashtalk you and each faction with about 45 minutes of speech for each civ.
AoE 4 is a step back in that regard as the AI is named "A.I. - [Insert Difficulty Level]". Additionally, they don't resign by themselves like they do in AoE 2 or 3 when they're at a disadvantage, instead you have to either fight them down to the last vill like in AoE 1 or fulfill one of the three conditions.

Strongly disagree with most of what you have said.
But I also can't be bothered to go into a nerd discussion full of paragraphs about " what is better ".

My advise: Go and play AoE2 and don't waste your precious time on this forum if you are so much into playing AoE2 over AoE4.

I play the AoE series since the first day when it was actually released, so far, this has been the best AoE there is, judging from an overall point of view (loved AoE3 though, just also dated now).

[NoobusMaximus]

Ursprungligen skrivet av FloosWorld:

You might want to check out Viper's "LimitedViper" series then.

Objectively speaking AoE2 has a lot more micro. A lot more. Even the macro has a lot more micro.

You can also check Don Artie's series for AoE4, which is similar to Viper's. But let's not kid ourselves that we are as talented as those guys, in terms of reaction speeds, precision, and many other factors. When they are faced with equally talented players, those aspects that they have neglected suddenly aren't as optional anymore. The same applies to us when we're not able to match their incredible talent in the above-mentioned aspects.

AoE2 is a more mechanically heavy game. AoE4 is a modern game, with modern design, that feels much more enjoyable and varied. And less frustrating. That's my opinion, and you are free to disagree.

[FloosWorld]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Neo92:

Strongly disagree with most of what you have said.
But I also can't be bothered to go into a nerd discussion full of paragraphs about " what is better ".

My advise: Go and play AoE2 and don't waste your precious time on this forum if you are so much into playing AoE2 over AoE4.

I play the AoE series since the first day when it was actually released, so far, this has been the best AoE there is, judging from an overall point of view (loved AoE3 though, just also dated now).

Oh, quite unfortunate that you mistake my extensive reply as a "nerd discussion". I only wanted to hear points from you as to why you consider AoE 2 to be "inferior".

If I wouldn't be interested in AoE 4 (which I am), I wouldn't bother to visit its community places in first place, don't you think so?

I do so as well, however, while I still consider AoE 4 as a good game on its own, it's (at least for me) not as enjoyable as AoE 2 AND 3. I do not only limit myself to one game in the series.
The reason why I think so is that AoE 4 still misses many of the little things past Age games had that made them an Age game. I hope this makes sense.

Also, neither of those games is outdated. Old = bad is a very difficult take.

--

Ursprungligen skrivet av NoobusMaximus:

Ursprungligen skrivet av FloosWorld:

You might want to check out Viper's "LimitedViper" series then.

Objectively speaking AoE2 has a lot more micro. A lot more. Even the macro has a lot more micro.

You can also check Don Artie's series for AoE4, which is similar to Viper's. But let's not kid ourselves that we are as talented as those guys, in terms of reaction speeds, precision, and many other factors. When they are faced with equally talented players, those aspects that they have neglected suddenly aren't as optional anymore. The same applies to us when we're not able to match their incredible talent in the above-mentioned aspects.

AoE2 is a more mechanically heavy game. AoE4 is a modern game, with modern design, that feels much more enjoyable and varied. And less frustrating. That's my opinion, and you are free to disagree.

I think the micro is in general similar between both games. AoE 4 "removed" a couple of aspects but at other ends added other micro ways. But yep, the marco and eco has more micro.

I'll definitely check it out. I think Viper mainly wanted to show that game knowledge alone can win you games. Dave also kinda showed that with his Controller Player accs.

I can see why ppl feel less frustated about AoE 4 and also partly agree with it. I'm also often frustrated in AoE 2 when my vills split up between two sheeps when they aren't supposed to do so... or when I accidentally delete my hunt again in AoE 3 by building a granary on them. :'D
But for me these moments are outweighted by the overall gameplay.
I also play games rather based on their gameplay than on how modern they are. :P

[Sylvester Sirloin]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Klitiz Sixx:

AoE 2 is nostalgia!

AOE2 is better for solo/co op play doing campaigns.

AOE4 is better for multiplayer and playing civs that are more unique from each other in playstyle and unique units.

[76561199831628039]

aoe2 has no regional units, so all villagers look the same its horrible

and you have asian civs using European units thats makes no sense whatsoever

mechanics that are horrible to the game like deer pushing

all civs the same, aoe4 is alot different and we getting crusaders and 2 dlc in total this year

[FloosWorld]

Ursprungligen skrivet av iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii😳😈:

aoe2 has no regional units, so all villagers look the same its horrible

and you have asian civs using European units thats makes no sense whatsoever

mechanics that are horrible to the game like deer pushing

all civs the same, aoe4 is alot different and we getting crusaders and 2 dlc in total this year

You mean skins, not units. AoE 2 has regional units such as Steppe Lancers (Mongols, Cumans, Tatars) or Eagle Warrior (Aztec, Mayan, Inca).

Regional skins is something that can be fixed, should it be a priority, which it isn't as there are other parts of the game that are more important to work on.

Deer pushing isn't horrible, it's just waaaay too overvalued by players. The average player doesn't have the same degree of multitasking to make it work properly. With 2k hours into DE and mostly sitting in 900-1k Elo, I know what I'm speaking of. It's only interesting once you get higher on the ladder.

I suggest turning "Full Tech Tree" off then if you think civs are "all the same" lul.

[SvarogX]

Ursprungligen skrivet av iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii😳😈:

aoe2 has no regional units, so all villagers look the same its horrible

and you have asian civs using European units thats makes no sense whatsoever

mechanics that are horrible to the game like deer pushing

all civs the same, aoe4 is alot different and we getting crusaders and 2 dlc in total this year

Age of Empires 4 always did what the franchise even in its name " Age of EMPIRES " tried to do, correctly for the first time.
Making the empires significantly different from each other, non is like another.

I mean look at the Byzantines, the beautiful detail of this faction, the very very unique and diverse playstyle. Its a history masterpiece.

AoE2 has no such thing to offer, as you have already mentioned.