Byzantium doesn't even get its own DLC

[Heraclius Caesar]

I was excited at first to see that Byzantium is finally going to be included in game when the new DLC comes out. It sure took long enough. It's still baffling to me that such a pivotal civ wasn't in game at release.

Now that I've had some time to think about it though it hit me that despite everything Byzantium doesn't even get its own DLC. It's being lumped into a DLC called The Sultans Ascend. Even though Byzantium existed and was a glorious empire long before Islam and before there were any Sultans (ascending or otherwise) in the world. How is this ok? Why does this developer repeatedly disrespect the Byzantine Empire? Seriously, how is it that Byzantium doesn't get its own DLC?

I was truly excited and happy with yesterdays announcement but now I'm slightly annoyed & disappointed.

[Marshall of the Templars]

As an admirer of the Basileia Rhōmaiōn myself, I can understand your disappointment.

But I get the feeling this was mainly a business decision from developers, who were seemingly aware that a vocal group of players really wanted Eastern Rome in the game, and knew that demand for factions such as the Ayyubids or the Seljuks wasn't as high. So adding Eastern Rome as part of the expansion to help boost sales might have seemed a logical decision.

[James3157]

You do realize right that this with being the first ever dlc "expansion" for AoE IV that many people would be expecting more than only just one new civ since it would be a tiny dlc that is not big enough to even be considered an "expansion"? If you were expecting a dlc only just for Byzantines you are probably in the minority. Also worth mentioning as well that Byzantines fought defensively mostly as opposed to further expanding their empire contrary to the Abbasid Dynasty and Ottomans.

Byzantines are probably not going to have their own campaign for reasons that should be obvious as well. For example, Holy Roman Empire (HRE) is huge and covers most of Italy besides Venice and the Vatican while Byzantine Empire size was declining during this time period as well mainly because the Byzantines were also known for being corrupt. Contrary to AoE II: DE I doubt that the Byzantines ever will have their own campaign, but might be included for Art of War. Also, AoE IV was made by Relic Entertainment and not Forgotten Empire which made AoE II: DE meaning that you cannot expect AoE IV to be just like AoE II: DE since it was made by a different company.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Marshall of the Templars:

As an admirer of the Basileia Rhōmaiōn myself, I can understand your disappointment.

But I get the feeling this was mainly a business decision from developers, who were seemingly aware that a vocal group of players really wanted Eastern Rome in the game, and knew that demand for factions such as the Ayyubids or the Seljuks wasn't as high. So adding Eastern Rome as part of the expansion to help boost sales might have seemed a logical decision.

That makes sense of course it's just frustrating that they're second fiddle basically despite existing and flourishing long before there were any Sultans.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by James3157:

You do realize right that this with being the first ever dlc "expansion" for AoE IV that many people would be expecting more than only just one new civ since it would be a tiny dlc that is not big enough to even be considered an "expansion"? If you were expecting a dlc only just for Byzantines you are probably in the minority. Also worth mentioning as well that Byzantines fought defensively mostly as opposed to further expanding their empire contrary to the Abbasid Dynasty and Ottomans.

I worded it poorly which is my mistake. What I mean is that I'm disappointed Byzantium is secondary instead of the main feature of the DLC even though Byzantium was around and had a long and rich history before there were ever any Sultans. It would have been better imo if there would have been a Byzantium themed DLC that introduced the civ instead of them being introduced as a secondary civ in a DLC called The Sultans Ascend.

Byzantium had periods of expansion as well. If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading "Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood" by Anthony Kaldellis, he speaks expertly on the subject.

Originally posted by James3157:

Byzantines are probably not going to have their own campaign for reasons that should be obvious as well.

Unfortunately you're probably right, it's not something I would get my hopes up for.

Originally posted by James3157:

Byzantine Empire size was declining during this time period as well mainly because the Byzantines were also known for being corrupt.

This just isn't true considering Byzantium was one of the largest and most powerful polities in the world up until the 4th Crusade. Let's not forget to mention that the empire was beleaguered on every side and lived in a pretty constant state of war for much of its existence.

Originally posted by James3157:

Also, AoE IV was made by Relic Entertainment and not Forgotten Empire which made AoE II: DE meaning that you cannot expect AoE IV to be just like AoE II: DE since it was made by a different company.

I'm aware of who the developer of AoE4 is.

I never said I expected AoE4 to be just like AoE2 DE.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by James3157:

AoE IV was made by Relic Entertainment and not Forgotten Empire which made AoE II: DE meaning that you cannot expect AoE IV to be just like AoE II: DE since it was made by a different company.

Keep in mind that Forgotten Empires is actually involved in AoE 4's development. It's however Relic that has the last word.

[James3157]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

I'm aware of who the developer of AoE4 is.

I never said I expected AoE4 to be just like AoE2 DE.

It just seems to me that you were expecting Byzantines to have a dlc named after them, because they were originally basegame from AoE II: DE despite it being highly unlikely they will ever have their own campaign on AoE IV. I am not surprised either that Byzantines and Japan are not basegame due to the fact that AoE IV was not made by Forgotten Empire even if they helped Relic Entertainment develop this game like what FloosWorld had mentioned earlier. Also, while it might seem strange for Abbasid Dynasty to be Saladin instead of an official Ayyubid Dynasty as a new civilization to AoE IV (who were were also known as Saracens from AoE II: DE) the problem is that Abbasid Dynasty might also be a renamed civilization as Ayyubid Dynasty only just for the campaign similar to the English being renamed Normans for their campaign and perhaps the Abbasid Dynasty having a reskin (cosmetic) as well just for the campaign.

[King Vitamin]

Please explain which civ in the game isn't pivotal quit your griping and nitpicking and try to enjoy getting more stuff in the game.

[[FKG] Matahari]

You should wait for more details about the DLC, then you would probably understand why the DLC is named like that.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by James3157:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

I'm aware of who the developer of AoE4 is.

I never said I expected AoE4 to be just like AoE2 DE.

It just seems to me that you were expecting Byzantines to have a dlc named after them, because they were originally basegame from AoE II: DE despite it being highly unlikely they will ever have their own campaign on AoE IV. I am not surprised either that Byzantines and Japan are not basegame due to the fact that AoE IV was not made by Forgotten Empire even if they helped Relic Entertainment develop this game like what FloosWorld had mentioned earlier. Also, while it might seem strange for Abbasid Dynasty to be Saladin instead of an official Ayyubid Dynasty as a new civilization to AoE IV (who were were also known as Saracens from AoE II: DE) the problem is that Abbasid Dynasty might also be a renamed civilization as Ayyubid Dynasty only just for the campaign similar to the English being renamed Normans for their campaign and perhaps the Abbasid Dynasty having a reskin (cosmetic) as well just for the campaign.

A shame that out of all of my genuine replies to your ramblings that's the only one you respond to. Let it seem to you however you like. The fact of the matter is that Byzantium should have been in the game at release, and not because AoE2 did it but because of its incredibly significant place in history.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by King Vitamin:

Please explain which civ in the game isn't pivotal quit your griping and nitpicking and try to enjoy getting more stuff in the game.

We're talking about Byzantium here it's amazing to me that folks like yourself just don't seem to get it.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Matahari:

You should wait for more details about the DLC, then you would probably understand why the DLC is named like that.

I think you've missed the point(s)

[James3157]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

A shame that out of all of my genuine replies to your ramblings that's the only one you respond to. Let it seem to you however you like. The fact of the matter is that Byzantium should have been in the game at release, and not because AoE2 did it but because of its incredibly significant place in history.

Malians and Ottomans were included from a free update, but I would be surprised actually if more civilizations were to be included from another free update and especially when considering the fact that these two civilizations were originally supposed to be dlc before Relic Entertainment decided to make them free instead. If Byzantines and Japanese are the only new civilizations that this dlc is going to get it is just barely big enough to even be considered an "expansion". The same complaint could be made as well that Japan should have been basegame and not only just the Byzantines.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by James3157:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

A shame that out of all of my genuine replies to your ramblings that's the only one you respond to. Let it seem to you however you like. The fact of the matter is that Byzantium should have been in the game at release, and not because AoE2 did it but because of its incredibly significant place in history.

Malians and Ottomans were included from a free update, but I would be surprised actually if more civilizations were to be included from another free update and especially when considering the fact that these two civilizations were originally supposed to be dlc before Relic Entertainment decided to make them free instead. If Byzantines and Japanese are the only new civilizations that this dlc is going to get it is just barely big enough to even be considered an "expansion". The same complaint could be made as well that Japan should have been basegame and not only just the Byzantines.

Whatever you say

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by King Vitamin:

Please explain which civ in the game isn't pivotal quit your griping and nitpicking and try to enjoy getting more stuff in the game.

We're talking about Byzantium here it's amazing to me that folks like yourself just don't seem to get it.

We could say same thing about pitoval Vikings and Japanenese civs, or Ottomonas or others - "these cultures should be included in base game and have own campaign"

Well, Byzantine Empire was Your favourite medieval state, and it will be added in AoE4 now, Instead of enjoy Your favorite Byzantines You just complain

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by Matahari:

You should wait for more details about the DLC, then you would probably understand why the DLC is named like that.

I think you've missed the point(s)

The point is, that is not clear what exactly the DLC will contain, if there will be single-player campiagns (and which civs will be there)

You should wait with Your "statesments" until official info

[Static]

I thought about this a little bit, I mean it's weird that Japan is included as well. The best guess I have is that they started working on a bunch of different civilizations at the same time and they Byzantium and Japan were just completed and are ready for release in time with this DLC pack so they were thrown in.

Of course just a spitball guess.