For the "normal/casual" player, is Hard AI really that hard?

[对不起我只会说英语]

So I haven't gotten the chance to play PVP yet and is mostly practicing against the computer (my internet sucks anyway). I've gotten to stage where I can beat Intermediate AI but struggle to beat Hard AI.

But I had to wonder, are Hard AIs really hard 1v1? Or do I just need to practice more? :/

[Banknes]

Try some PvP. Comparing AI to real players is like apples to oranges. AI is consistent in its tactics and with each match of real players, its a coin toss.

[VoiD]

The thing about AI, not just in this game, is that it either cheats or gets ridiculously efficient at doing some things, like build orders, etc...

But the AI will always be the AI and once you get the hang of it, it will stand no chance, it will always do the same things, have the same weaknessess, and the same strengths.

IE: If the AI is programed to micro and deal with a certain tactic, that tactic will always be bad and it will never work, if it's not, it will always work against it.
The one thing the AI can do that players can't is perfect micro with no reaction time, of every unit in the map at the same time, but it can't use actual strategic decisions. Eventually you'll be playing on large maps with every AI vs you for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles because 1v1 is no longer fun, or run into MP.

[Janer64]

I just lost to easy AI!!!!
I couldn't beat intermediate so I assumed I'd beat easy hahahah
Oh well.

I played AoE 2 back when it came out but never online as I'd get thrashed there,,,I could be intermediate back then :P

[Cave-Man]

The easy AI is like Skynet... I have no idea how bad it could be on normal, let alone Hard!

[Spack Jarrow]

Even if you play against a player that Looses to Hard Ai , it's still not the same as playing an AI. The play is more organic and tricky.

Ai is set in its ways, it has A pre programmed build and A timed attack that it wants to do and by god it will do it weather it is the correct choice to make or not. Most games don't even add to Ai Skill Expression with each level , they simply multiply resources.

It took Alpha Star 200 yrs of simulated games of learning in order to compete with human gm players and alpha star still does inhuman feats.
The best rank it could get was Plat , before it started learning from humans.

[Dayve]

Originally posted by A.:

So I haven't gotten the chance to play PVP yet and is mostly practicing against the computer (my internet sucks anyway). I've gotten to stage where I can beat Intermediate AI but struggle to beat Hard AI.

But I had to wonder, are Hard AIs really hard 1v1? Or do I just need to practice more? :/

It's not as hard as the hard AI in Age 2 DE was, but yeah it's pretty hard (for a casual player). They'll hit you with decent sized armies early on, and yes it does cheat.

[ArcadeVault]

Originally posted by Dayve:

Originally posted by A.:

So I haven't gotten the chance to play PVP yet and is mostly practicing against the computer (my internet sucks anyway). I've gotten to stage where I can beat Intermediate AI but struggle to beat Hard AI.

But I had to wonder, are Hard AIs really hard 1v1? Or do I just need to practice more? :/

It's not as hard as the hard AI in Age 2 DE was, but yeah it's pretty hard (for a casual player). They'll hit you with decent sized armies early on, and yes it does cheat.

Nope, AI is not cheating in AoE4, you can read a lot of articles about it, thats something unique here. The AI is tought by machine learning.

[Despiser]

Originally posted by Dayve:

Originally posted by A.:

So I haven't gotten the chance to play PVP yet and is mostly practicing against the computer (my internet sucks anyway). I've gotten to stage where I can beat Intermediate AI but struggle to beat Hard AI.

But I had to wonder, are Hard AIs really hard 1v1? Or do I just need to practice more? :/

It's not as hard as the hard AI in Age 2 DE was, but yeah it's pretty hard (for a casual player). They'll hit you with decent sized armies early on, and yes it does cheat.

AI must cheat or else it would be far too easy. It's not economically sensible for devs to plough resources into an AI capable of matching a human player. Every game I am aware of treats adjusts difficulty the same way with buffs of some sort, build speed, more units, research bonuses, damage modifiers etc.

[Default]

Hard AI is programmed to be aggressive in the early game and then snowballs to an extent. I beat them in one of two ways with English (1v1) either early game rush (archers/spears/rams). Rushing I have gotten down to 16 minute games. Or the long game where I boom with a 2 TC opener (castle at 5min and then TC by 6min) then grind out and win with either sacred sites or wonder. AI is terrible at alternate win cons but you need to move at a steady pace to not get overwhelmed. To beat hard AI you need to target 5 minute feudal and 14 minute castle (if going long game) and be aggressive the entire time.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Subject19:

Originally posted by Dayve:

It's not as hard as the hard AI in Age 2 DE was, but yeah it's pretty hard (for a casual player). They'll hit you with decent sized armies early on, and yes it does cheat.

Nope, AI is not cheating in AoE4, you can read a lot of articles about it, thats something unique here. The AI is tought by machine learning.

The ai is not taught by machine learning I'm pretty sure. I think the machine learning ai is a separate thing they intend to release as an "unbeatable" ai later. It certainly doesn't play like it is.

But it also doesn't cheat. At least not for resources (I suspect it might maphack but it might also just run around with scouts constantly and be programmed to attack wherever you aren't seemingly regardless of circumstances).

[Quintem]

Originally posted by Despiser:

Originally posted by Dayve:

It's not as hard as the hard AI in Age 2 DE was, but yeah it's pretty hard (for a casual player). They'll hit you with decent sized armies early on, and yes it does cheat.

AI must cheat or else it would be far too easy. It's not economically sensible for devs to plough resources into an AI capable of matching a human player. Every game I am aware of treats adjusts difficulty the same way with buffs of some sort, build speed, more units, research bonuses, damage modifiers etc.

If the AI cheated it would not be so damn easy.

Also the AoE2 DE AI does not cheat, the Starcraft 2 AI does not cheat. Developers have gotten pretty good at making AI that does not cheat.

[Arcane]

Even Hardest AI is very easy to beat. I beat all AI except Hardest on the first try without much troubles. Hardest took me 2 tries to beat.

It completely falls apart in the late game. It can not properly move armies or engage in a battle at all. It would just move armies back and forth while my army is hitting/shooting it. Some serious bugs in AI for sure.

But I do have some RTS experience so I guess perception would be different to a new player.

[对不起我只会说英语]

Originally posted by Dayve:

It's not as hard as the hard AI in Age 2 DE was, but yeah it's pretty hard (for a casual player). They'll hit you with decent sized armies early on, and yes it does cheat.

Originally posted by Default:

Hard AI is programmed to be aggressive in the early game and then snowballs to an extent. I beat them in one of two ways with English (1v1) either early game rush (archers/spears/rams). Rushing I have gotten down to 16 minute games. Or the long game where I boom with a 2 TC opener (castle at 5min and then TC by 6min) then grind out and win with either sacred sites or wonder. AI is terrible at alternate win cons but you need to move at a steady pace to not get overwhelmed. To beat hard AI you need to target 5 minute feudal and 14 minute castle (if going long game) and be aggressive the entire time.

I see. I guess they remind me of Dota2 AI where they have instant reaction time and fast farm but poor decision making (example, they can immediately find the real player from the illusion or know when someone with invisibility is nearby). In AOE4 they seem to immediately react to pokes like it's part of their script.

The problem I had when I played against hard AI is that I still can't match their age up timings and yeah, they keep raiding me and they don't seem to slow down despite losing most of their units during the raid unlike the intermediate AI where you feel like that they're really down on eco after losing a fight.

It's rather hard to slow down their eco too since they react so fast and always have outposts built. I wonder if I just suck at it that's all.

Originally posted by Arcane:

Even Hardest AI is very easy to beat. I beat all AI except Hardest on the first try without much troubles. Hardest took me 2 tries to beat.

It completely falls apart in the late game. It can not properly move armies or engage in a battle at all. It would just move armies back and forth while my army is hitting/shooting it. Some serious bugs in AI for sure.

But I do have some RTS experience so I guess perception would be different to a new player.

I see, I had very little RTS experience beforehand so I guess you're technically leagues stronger than me. I am still practicing my micro and I wanted to practice before wasting my time getting whooped in PVP lol.

I mean beating Hard and Hardest AI unlocks a steam achievement anyway so I try to take that as practice with merits before PVP.

[ᚨᚠᚨᚱᛗᛖᚾᚾᛁ]

I had similar struggle and created a thread asking almost exact same question, and there really is no way behind it, you have to learn to always produce citizens till at least there are 80 of them, distributed according to what unit you are gonna make and what their requiremens are. I'm a casual and i still consider myself one but i've changed my playstyle significantly due to the constant producing, no stops and no breaks.

If you are like me and cannot really split your attention between raiding the enemy early and building economy early, i suggest you turtle and create armies that counter the enemy, just defend and grow your base and then burst forward during mid to lategame with 6 bombards and tear the enemy base a new one lol.

[Rinky]

I've accidently beaten Hard AI during my second day of playing. Except playing custom games as a 10y.o in WC3 long time ago, this is my first RTS.

Just get silver in 1st and 3rd Art of War challenges and learn a build order