Mongol response to camel hard counter

[PotatoScav]

No way to fight back once camel hit a certain threshold.

Abbasid have better bow, counter cav, better MAA. Better late game multi TC boom.

Mongol should have a tech where you can tech for cheaper bow man.

[Apanatchanka]

i havent play mongol for some times but i think u are supposed to get some pressure early before they get to that point

[PotatoScav]

Originally posted by Apanatchanka:

i havent play mongol for some times but i think u are supposed to get some pressure early before they get to that point

Their first landmark allow you to have 6 unit archer spear and a camel archer that obliterate any early pressure then they can spam bow with composite bow, ram tech and your base is done.

All this with a second TC on a safe gold or woodline, hell on a stone for a third TC

What pressure you want to apply with?

The "you are supposed to get some pressure" is like saying water is wet.

Mongol are supposed to gives any civ early pressure duh?

Gives me a proper solution.

[Dominic]

i mean what else is there to say about it? win before it gets to that point. abbasid is a sorta campy civ that is more then happy to just boom, mongol is an aggro civ that wants to raid and do as much damage as possible. so end them fast and keep raiding them and trying to deny woodline. mil wing will hold you off for a moment but just make some archers to accompany your keshiks and/or horsman and pick off the spears or just split and raid multiple spots. dont let the game go late its simple

[PotatoScav]

Originally posted by Dominic:

i mean what else is there to say about it? win before it gets to that point. abbasid is a sorta campy civ that is more then happy to just boom, mongol is an aggro civ that wants to raid and do as much damage as possible. so end them fast and keep raiding them and trying to deny woodline. mil wing will hold you off for a moment but just make some archers to accompany your keshiks and/or horsman and pick off the spears or just split and raid multiple spots. dont let the game go late its simple

There are literally no place to raid when they sit next to TC.
Other civ suffer lack of unit for a moment to defend when they make fast 2 TC so raid may works
Abbasid mil wing stop this from happening and when they put that 2 TC down you can only raid one point and that one point will be defended.

It almost works like chinese.
The only reason chinese is not that good is that they don't have mil wing that gives you free army. and no camel to counter all your unique unit.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Originally posted by Dominic:

i mean what else is there to say about it? win before it gets to that point. abbasid is a sorta campy civ that is more then happy to just boom, mongol is an aggro civ that wants to raid and do as much damage as possible. so end them fast and keep raiding them and trying to deny woodline. mil wing will hold you off for a moment but just make some archers to accompany your keshiks and/or horsman and pick off the spears or just split and raid multiple spots. dont let the game go late its simple

Abbasid mil wing stop this from happening and when they put that 2 TC down you can only raid one point and that one point will be defended.

look, if you cant deal with 3 spears and 3 archers then you got other problems. yes you might not be able to raid them immediately after they age up but you should be able to raid them shortly after if you yourself has some production buildings. horseman/archer should be able to deal with it if you can micro and once you got keshiks you can dive tcs without taking too much damage so long as your keshiks are actually hitting things

[PotatoScav]

Originally posted by Dominic:

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Abbasid mil wing stop this from happening and when they put that 2 TC down you can only raid one point and that one point will be defended.

look, if you cant deal with 3 spears and 3 archers then you got other problems. yes you might not be able to raid them immediately after they age up but you should be able to raid them shortly after if you yourself has some production buildings. horseman/archer should be able to deal with it if you can micro and once you got keshiks you can dive tcs without taking too much damage so long as your keshiks are actually hitting things

Make keshiks into spear and arher? Much wow.

Dive TC with keshiks.

Yes sure I can do it if my enemy is you that don't build spear man.

Of cause I have proper production building.
But do enlighten me how I out produce 2 TC or 3 TC boom/

[Dominic]

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Originally posted by Dominic:

look, if you cant deal with 3 spears and 3 archers then you got other problems. yes you might not be able to raid them immediately after they age up but you should be able to raid them shortly after if you yourself has some production buildings. horseman/archer should be able to deal with it if you can micro and once you got keshiks you can dive tcs without taking too much damage so long as your keshiks are actually hitting things

Make keshiks into spear and arher? Much wow.

yes and use YOUR archers to kill the enemy spearman while your keshiks/horseman kill the enemy archers. its this thing called microing, i know it sounds crazy...

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Dive TC with keshiks.

Yes sure I can do it if my enemy is you that don't build spear man.

Its abbasid they will always build spearmen, thats sorta their thing. ITS ON YOU to know and be able to deal with them.

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Of cause I have proper production building.
But do enlighten me how I out produce 2 TC or 3 TC boom/

you dont try to match abbasid tc boom... you can boom a little with traders while harassing since abbasid will likely just turtle and not fight your trade, and keep producing to keep pressure and end early. you seem to lack the mentality for help so this'll be my last reply to you.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Originally posted by Dominic:

i mean what else is there to say about it? win before it gets to that point. abbasid is a sorta campy civ that is more then happy to just boom, mongol is an aggro civ that wants to raid and do as much damage as possible. so end them fast and keep raiding them and trying to deny woodline. mil wing will hold you off for a moment but just make some archers to accompany your keshiks and/or horsman and pick off the spears or just split and raid multiple spots. dont let the game go late its simple

This.

Abbasids will sit back and eventually get Camals... or put together super MaA via the university tech, blacksmith techs, and unique tech for +15% hp from their landmark. The longer it goes on, the better their econ and units get, for the most part.

Meanwhile, if you don't take Mongol units over to raid and set fire to stuff, part of your unique econ bonus is wasted.

Skirmishing and keeping their villages off-balance is key. Multiple ctrl-groups of horse units early on goes a long ways, depending how well the Abbasid player can micro...

[PotatoScav]

Originally posted by Dominic:

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Make keshiks into spear and arher? Much wow.

yes and use YOUR archers to kill the enemy spearman while your keshiks/horseman kill the enemy archers. its this thing called microing, i know it sounds crazy...

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Dive TC with keshiks.

Yes sure I can do it if my enemy is you that don't build spear man.

Its abbasid they will always build spearmen, thats sorta their thing. ITS ON YOU to know and be able to deal with them.

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Of cause I have proper production building.
But do enlighten me how I out produce 2 TC or 3 TC boom/

you dont try to match abbasid tc boom... you can boom a little with traders while harassing since abbasid will likely just turtle and not fight your trade, and keep producing to keep pressure and end early. you seem to lack the mentality for help so this'll be my last reply to you.

Spear and archer combo hard counter kesik and archer because the cost efficiency
You don't even know what you saying

Also stop using micro as an excuse to anything unbalanced


I'm talking about macro perspective
Leave micro level stuff to pro player

[PotatoScav]

Originally posted by 小可汗 | MP40:

Originally posted by Dominic:

yes and use YOUR archers to kill the enemy spearman while your keshiks/horseman kill the enemy archers. its this thing called microing, i know it sounds crazy...



Its abbasid they will always build spearmen, thats sorta their thing. ITS ON YOU to know and be able to deal with them.


you dont try to match abbasid tc boom... you can boom a little with traders while harassing since abbasid will likely just turtle and not fight your trade, and keep producing to keep pressure and end early. you seem to lack the mentality for help so this'll be my last reply to you.

Spear and archer combo hard counter kesik and archer because the cost efficiency
You don't even know what you saying

Also stop using micro as an excuse to anything unbalanced


I'm talking about macro perspective
Leave micro level stuff to pro player

And besides they get archer camel your kesiks shrink
1 camel btw in age 2
Who suggest horse unit against abbasid again ?

[PotatoScav]

By far the only few times my mongol win abbasid is if my enemy eat crayon made 3 scout tower

Trade is not a boom for mongol
It's the only way to gives this civ a plain field to other civ eco buff

And the boom will slow your raid , the raid you mentioned

[PotatoScav]

Originally posted by Aluminum Elite Master:

Originally posted by Dominic:

i mean what else is there to say about it? win before it gets to that point. abbasid is a sorta campy civ that is more then happy to just boom, mongol is an aggro civ that wants to raid and do as much damage as possible. so end them fast and keep raiding them and trying to deny woodline. mil wing will hold you off for a moment but just make some archers to accompany your keshiks and/or horsman and pick off the spears or just split and raid multiple spots. dont let the game go late its simple

This.

Abbasids will sit back and eventually get Camals... or put together super MaA via the university tech, blacksmith techs, and unique tech for +15% hp from their landmark. The longer it goes on, the better their econ and units get, for the most part.

Meanwhile, if you don't take Mongol units over to raid and set fire to stuff, part of your unique econ bonus is wasted.

Skirmishing and keeping their villages off-balance is key. Multiple ctrl-groups of horse units early on goes a long ways, depending how well the Abbasid player can micro...

Abbasid literally get bonus at decrease torch damage and early raid if positioned beautifully almost all under tc range

Raid my little pony

Also basically what you saying is you need micro to win macro

And if your enemy simply have same micro level they win you at macro

Because

Faction

[PotatoScav]

Abbasid hard counter mongols and mongols should have reduce bowman cost as a tech to some what stop this from happening and gives mongol a chance,