Ottomans are Weak

[Solo Joke]

Title. The Ottomans seem really weak compared to other civs. It feels like they are super expensive but don't get much for the extra cost.
Academys suck, their sipahi are weak, their jannisaries are weaker handcannons. They don't have any strong early units like early knights or men at arms, and they don't have crazy production bonuses like English or Mongols.

Does anyone have any good strats with them that make them not suck?

[Solo Joke]

Publicado originalmente por Cacomistle:

Publicado originalmente por Solo Joke:

I misclicked with the 350, and no, obviously I wasn't including blacksmith, but it's still a lot of resources to gather for something that produces units exceptionally slowly, it will still lower your age 2 time, which will allow your opponent to get to their strong options faster than you.

I never mentioned losing to a french player specifically, I was referencing the other guy's scenario with french knights+arbs vs ottoman klnights+jan.



It was the first thing that came up when I was looking for winrates, I missed the part where it said quick match. But according to the stats, does that mean Malians are the best civ and Rus is the worst?

According to the stats yes. I think consensus of pro players does include rus as the worst civ (they're basically only decent on water), but I don't think malians are considered the best at a pro level (not sure what civ is though, I think its balanced enough that a lot of pros have different opinions).

According to the stats Rus aren't good on water.

[Cacomistle]

Publicado originalmente por Solo Joke:

Publicado originalmente por Cacomistle:

According to the stats yes. I think consensus of pro players does include rus as the worst civ (they're basically only decent on water), but I don't think malians are considered the best at a pro level (not sure what civ is though, I think its balanced enough that a lot of pros have different opinions).

According to the stats Rus aren't good on water.

Water and king of the hill. Their second best map is medi, after king of the hill (which I forgot, they're actually good on maps where they can get insane gold from hunting cabins. Last map pool hideout carried their win rate), whereas water they're just decent on.

[Mettle]

Publicado originalmente por Cacomistle:

Publicado originalmente por Solo Joke:

I misclicked with the 350, and no, obviously I wasn't including blacksmith, but it's still a lot of resources to gather for something that produces units exceptionally slowly, it will still lower your age 2 time, which will allow your opponent to get to their strong options faster than you.

I never mentioned losing to a french player specifically, I was referencing the other guy's scenario with french knights+arbs vs ottoman klnights+jan.



It was the first thing that came up when I was looking for winrates, I missed the part where it said quick match. But according to the stats, does that mean Malians are the best civ and Rus is the worst?

According to the stats yes. I think consensus of pro players does include rus as the worst civ (they're basically only decent on water), but I don't think malians are considered the best at a pro level (not sure what civ is though, I think its balanced enough that a lot of pros have different opinions).

Yes MALI is very strong and are considered to be in need of some adjustment at the pro level. It's not the Civ overall but just one or two FarIMBA builds that are both extremely efficient AND easy/safe. expect them to get an adjustment or two in the next patch. that and their incredible value from toll outposts and trade (at least in team games).

[stanislav]

One way to play them is mass spears mass janiassary mass mangonel/great bombard. The advance is slow and if 2 cavalry armies catch you out of position you are dead. Otherwise you mow down everything slowly but surely. Build front bases quickly because your barracks/ranges/stables cost less and also you have a good trade potential and you can actually protect it and boost it with castles in the back along the trade route. Traders with 13 armor and 40% speed are not untouchable but a bit harder to raid while occasionaly getting shot at.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Publicado originalmente por Bubs:

Use jannisaries as ranged spearmen.

Don't build the schools until you have excess resources. If you build them immediately you wasted time getting stone, and likely can't afford to pay for units normally, and the schools are too slow to make up for that.

I believe the civ is somewhat slow to start, tedious to move all those guys into the siege engines, have right musicians in each unit, etc. They didn't fit my playstyle as best as I thought, so i switched to HRE.

Almost all of the above.

Janissaries appear one age earlier than vanilla Hand Cannon, BUT they take extra ranged damage. Which can become a huge problem if they are getting stomped by archers or crossbows, which is a very real risk.

Spamming Janissaries should only occur in response to an opponent spamming cavalry.

Moving people into siege engines shouldn't be an issue, though... with ctrl groups and judicious usage of the best siege engine for the situation, that part should work fairly well. And Janissaries in this case can have more justification to be built, since they can repair siege.

But overall, yeah, Ottomans do not get a lot of immediate economic boosts. Vizier points take a lot longer to get to than, say, immediately having a boost on econ tech costs (France) or improved berry foraging (Abassids and Delhi). The whole vibe of Ottomans is playing the long game, getting a bunch of Vizier points, and using their siege advantages (Great Bombard. Janissaries double as repair crew, putting inf. in siege units buffs them) to try and break a late-game stalemant.

[Antpile]

Ottoman mantra: Cover your ranged with more ranged.

Ottoman aren't weak, they just play different. The theory behind them is very simple. Executing it is a bit harder because they require stone, but not too much stone or you fall behind elsewhere.

1) You are a primarily ranged civ. Gather loads of wood. Lots of archers. Later lots of xbows and archers. Later still, lots of archers, xbows, and siege.

2) Now you just have to protect your archers and siege. Cav is the obvious weakness here. But oh wait, you have jannisaries that can stand behind the archers and xbows, next to the siege that they can also repair without vills, and obliterate even knights with ease.

3) You might say, "But wait. My jannisaries take extra from ranged." Well, first, why does he have more archers than you? Second, if he does go super hard on archers himself, it is a good thing you have a better horseman in the sipahi. Something your military academies should be spamming for free starting in feudal, until they can start spamming free knights in castle.

The idea as ottomans is that you can focus on gathering a lot more wood than everyone else because you get cavalry for free. Cavalry is very food heavy. They don't have that option. They need food, because they need cav to deal with your bazillion archers.

They can't just try and out archer spam you, either. You have free sipahi and faster fire rate and movement speed on your archers from the mehters. If they just try to match your archer numbers they'll get smashed by superior faster archers and sipahi.

If the game drags out to age 4, you use the same strat, but great bombards are your win condition. Cavalry isn't a threat to them unless you aren't paying attention and mis micro your ranged ball away from them. so your only real threats are springs and culvs.

[General Paczket]

delusinal otto are Strong A+ tier

[PotatoScav]

They are stronger in October now yes but this post is January.

[El Fabuloso]

Publicado originalmente por Solo Joke:

Title. The Ottomans seem really weak compared to other civs. It feels like they are super expensive but don't get much for the extra cost.
Academys suck, their sipahi are weak, their jannisaries are weaker handcannons. They don't have any strong early units like early knights or men at arms, and they don't have crazy production bonuses like English or Mongols.

Does anyone have any good strats with them that make them not suck?

Ottomans have the highest win rate at the moment. Probably the strongest civ in the game.

Check this https://aoe4world.com/stats/rm_solo/matchups

[2GenL]

Ottomans are a numbers civ... Outgun the other factions with numbers

[Solo Joke]

Publicado originalmente por El Fabuloso:

Publicado originalmente por Solo Joke:

Title. The Ottomans seem really weak compared to other civs. It feels like they are super expensive but don't get much for the extra cost.
Academys suck, their sipahi are weak, their jannisaries are weaker handcannons. They don't have any strong early units like early knights or men at arms, and they don't have crazy production bonuses like English or Mongols.

Does anyone have any good strats with them that make them not suck?

Ottomans have the highest win rate at the moment. Probably the strongest civ in the game.

Check this https://aoe4world.com/stats/rm_solo/matchups

Check the date of the post bro.