What makes AOE2 better than AOE4?

[Greywolf]

I keep hearing people say this that AOE2 is better than AOE4 but to be honest I am not seeing it? Sure there are fewer factions but the differences between them feel much more meaningful than a mere reskin, there are also various quality of life functions in AOE4 that make the gameplay feel quite a bit smoother, just wondering what was it about AOE2 that makes it better that AOE4 lacks?

[Zhen]

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

Starts in AoE 2 are kind of standardized.
To use Arabia as an example - you will always have:
[...]

My point exactly. In chess from the first move nothing is standardized, You can go Sicilian defense, which is pretty meta, but in reality it's just one of the many vastly different openings. AoE2 plays mostly on variations of a single opening. AoE4 or Starcraft give you more possibilities in early openings, and this, by extension, makes early scouting more valuable.

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

Meanwhile AoE4 civ roster; J'Dark civ.

Ok.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Zhen:

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

Starts in AoE 2 are kind of standardized.
To use Arabia as an example - you will always have:
[...]

My point exactly. In chess from the first move nothing is standardized, You can go Sicilian defense, which is pretty meta, but in reality it's just one of the many vastly different openings. AoE2 plays mostly on variations of a single opening. AoE4 or Starcraft give you more possibilities in early openings, and this, by extension, makes early scouting more valuable.

Nah. You're still have some variety in how you do early eco. My analogy with the resources roughly equals the pieces you start with in chess. It's always the same and there is some meta but ultimately it's up to you how you do it.

Scouting isn't more or less valuable, it's similar in that case due to the game design.

[Qew]

Aoe 2 offer more experience for non - competitive player : better campaign , co-op , AI , more game mode , custom mod / map . Aoe 4 only have a mediocre campaign and AI with not many game mode to play .
The PVP of aoe4 must be really good to make up for the lack of PVE . And it's not an easy experience either . New players don't have as many resources as aoe2 , the game have some starting dark soul boss (English long bow rush , French feudal knight , HRE fast castle ) , some civ have dota 2 level of complexity ...
And some how we are getting closer and closer to the player count of aoe2 . The dev must done something really here .

[grraf]

Originally posted by Astolfo:

#snip#
And some how we are getting closer and closer to the player count of aoe2 . The dev must done something really here .

Nope, it has actually surpassed the AoE 2 DE player counts on steam for the last couple of weeks due to the novelty of the DLC... but it doesn't seem like it will do so again this weekend(so far AoE IV had a 25.171 peak vs 25.284 for AoE 2 DE)

Thing is now that the novelty factor has started to wear off people started to realize theyr still left with AoE 4 in the end and not only that but where as before the civs were fairly decently balanced now you got about 1/3 or more of civs that simply are non-starters for competitive multiplayer and as per usual the devs have proven themselves tone deaf and with the latest patch actually decided to nerf plenty of those that were in need of a buff

One thing is for sure tho the DLC did very well and it temporarily allowed the game to reclaim close to half of its player base...time will tell if this was simply a fluke(no more byzantines&japanese to drop in the next one for guaranteed universal acclaim) OR a sign this game gets to survive after all.

[Rex]

Originally posted by ft Hallwaytent:

soundtrack on AOE2 was much better lol

That is very subjective. I love AoE2 OST, especially civ ones but all of them has only 1 unique track. AoE4 sound and OST IMO kicks a**. Every civ has its own unique music (peace, combat, exploration) and it changes with every age up.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Rex:

Originally posted by ft Hallwaytent:

soundtrack on AOE2 was much better lol

That is very subjective. I love AoE2 OST, especially civ ones but all of them has only 1 unique track. AoE4 sound and OST IMO kicks a**. Every civ has its own unique music (peace, combat, exploration) and it changes with every age up.

Have to say, even two years later the civ music in AoE 4 is nice but somewhat doesn't stick in my head the same way the OST of AoE 1, 2, 3 and AoM does. And I only really started playing the latter this year in preparation to Retold.

[Sir Moisty Capybara]

is AoE4 new campaigns any good? Or still the same old "narrator talks, players does something and finish"?

[Tizon]

Originally posted by Greywolf:

I keep hearing people say this that AOE2 is better than AOE4 but to be honest I am not seeing it? Sure there are fewer factions but the differences between them feel much more meaningful than a mere reskin, there are also various quality of life functions in AOE4 that make the gameplay feel quite a bit smoother, just wondering what was it about AOE2 that makes it better that AOE4 lacks?

i honestly think it's for players who prefers archer mobs over heavy melee who loves AoE2 better. I think archers in AoE2 are much stronger. The heavy armour units in Aoe 4 is tough to crack in comparison, but much more realistic.

[EdwardCarnby]

Originally posted by Sir Moisty Capybara:

Meanwhile AoE4 civ roster; J'Dark civ.

Ok.

And what's the issue with that? It's a variant civ on the French, it plays well and the addition of Jeanne as a hero unit spices up a civ that otherwise plays like basic AoE 2.

Honestly I think that people who want AoE 2 should just stick to that game instead of nitpicking the hell out of AoE 4. The new DLC actually made things more unique and interesting and I get that's not what AoE 2 fans were looking for, that's fine and all but you should really get the memo that AoE 4 doesn't want to please you at this point.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Sir Moisty Capybara:

is AoE4 new campaigns any good? Or still the same old "narrator talks, players does something and finish"?

It still follows the same narration style but replaced the female narrator with a contemporary narrator like in the AoE 2 campaigns. Gameplay-wise it's imo much better than the base game campaigns.

---

Originally posted by EdwardCarnby:

Originally posted by Sir Moisty Capybara:

Meanwhile AoE4 civ roster; J'Dark civ.

Ok.

And what's the issue with that? It's a variant civ on the French, it plays well and the addition of Jeanne as a hero unit spices up a civ that otherwise plays like basic AoE 2.

Honestly I think that people who want AoE 2 should just stick to that game instead of nitpicking the hell out of AoE 4. The new DLC actually made things more unique and interesting and I get that's not what AoE 2 fans were looking for, that's fine and all but you should really get the memo that AoE 4 doesn't want to please you at this point.

It's funny that AoE 4 players always assume that only AoE 2 players have their fair share of issues with AoE 4. AoE 3 players have their issues with 4 as well as 4 feels like a downgrade in several aspects to them, including:
- no manned siege
- no ragdolling when units are hit by artillery
- no things like natives on the map (I'm sure you could've added something like that to fit in the Medieval setting)
- no batch training

On top, AoE 3 players are kinda pissed that players celebrate features from AoE 4 as new and innovative for the series whereas AoE 3 had it years ago, including Landmarks, Ottoman Vizier, Byzantine Mercenaries, Malian Cattle Range.

[EdwardCarnby]

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

It's funny that AoE 4 players always assume that only AoE 2 players have their fair share of issues with AoE 4. AoE 3 players have their issues with 4 as well as 4 feels like a downgrade in several aspects to them, including:
- no manned siege
- no ragdolling when units are hit by artillery
- no things like natives on the map (I'm sure you could've added something like that to fit in the Medieval setting)
- no batch training

On top, AoE 3 players are kinda pissed that players celebrate features from AoE 4 as new and innovative for the series whereas AoE 3 had it years ago, including Landmarks, Ottoman Vizier, Byzantine Mercenaries, Malian Cattle Range.

I don't know how any of this relates to my comment, all I said was that AoE 4 is not AoE 2 and if you want it to be AoE 2 then you're never going to like it so just move on and continue playing AoE 2. I play AoE 2 too, maybe that's why I'm not looking for the same experience in AoE 4?

I don't play AoE 3 on the other hand because I think that it's an awful game. Some of the campaign is fun but it's a dumb fantasy plot, I hate its dumbed down macro, snaring is an awful idea and the card system can go to hell and die again. It's a game designed for people who don't like base building in RTS which is really funny considering that AoE is a base building RTS.

Do I go over to the AoE 3 forum and open a thread titled "Why was AoE 2 better than this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ piece of ♥♥♥♥ you dumb idiots who like this game ♥♥♥♥ you all btw?" No because that would be pointless and I realize that AoE 3 is not an awful game to a significant portion of the audience and that to a lot of people that concept worked really well.

And sure there is room for criticism when it comes to AoE 4, there are quite a few aspects that should be improved upon but "lol Jeanne d'Arc is a civ lol" is just a bad argument made in bad faith.

[Plastic Master]

AOE 2 dont have Female character or a hero names as civilization.
It respects history, AOE IV spits on history.
That is the main difference!

[Plastic Master]

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

Originally posted by Sir Moisty Capybara:

is AoE4 new campaigns any good? Or still the same old "narrator talks, players does something and finish"?

It still follows the same narration style but replaced the female narrator with a contemporary narrator like in the AoE 2 campaigns. Gameplay-wise it's imo much better than the base game campaigns.

---

Originally posted by EdwardCarnby:

And what's the issue with that? It's a variant civ on the French, it plays well and the addition of Jeanne as a hero unit spices up a civ that otherwise plays like basic AoE 2.

Honestly I think that people who want AoE 2 should just stick to that game instead of nitpicking the hell out of AoE 4. The new DLC actually made things more unique and interesting and I get that's not what AoE 2 fans were looking for, that's fine and all but you should really get the memo that AoE 4 doesn't want to please you at this point.

It's funny that AoE 4 players always assume that only AoE 2 players have their fair share of issues with AoE 4. AoE 3 players have their issues with 4 as well as 4 feels like a downgrade in several aspects to them, including:
- no manned siege
- no ragdolling when units are hit by artillery
- no things like natives on the map (I'm sure you could've added something like that to fit in the Medieval setting)
- no batch training

On top, AoE 3 players are kinda pissed that players celebrate features from AoE 4 as new and innovative for the series whereas AoE 3 had it years ago, including Landmarks, Ottoman Vizier, Byzantine Mercenaries, Malian Cattle Range.

You Gotta understand that AOE2 is old game, it was not as sophisticated and possible during that time. But in late 2021, it was completely possible, but AOEIV didnt implement it. It stepped back and made things even worse. There are 1000's of issues within AOE IV. Boring buildings, homing projectiles, horrible water till this day, still some blurry textures, lack of gaia variety etc

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by EdwardCarnby:

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

It's funny that AoE 4 players always assume that only AoE 2 players have their fair share of issues with AoE 4. AoE 3 players have their issues with 4 as well as 4 feels like a downgrade in several aspects to them, including:
- no manned siege
- no ragdolling when units are hit by artillery
- no things like natives on the map (I'm sure you could've added something like that to fit in the Medieval setting)
- no batch training

On top, AoE 3 players are kinda pissed that players celebrate features from AoE 4 as new and innovative for the series whereas AoE 3 had it years ago, including Landmarks, Ottoman Vizier, Byzantine Mercenaries, Malian Cattle Range.

I don't know how any of this relates to my comment, all I said was that AoE 4 is not AoE 2 and if you want it to be AoE 2 then you're never going to like it so just move on and continue playing AoE 2. I play AoE 2 too, maybe that's why I'm not looking for the same experience in AoE 4?

I don't play AoE 3 on the other hand because I think that it's an awful game. Some of the campaign is fun but it's a dumb fantasy plot, I hate its dumbed down macro, snaring is an awful idea and the card system can go to hell and die again. It's a game designed for people who don't like base building in RTS which is really funny considering that AoE is a base building RTS.

Do I go over to the AoE 3 forum and open a thread titled "Why was AoE 2 better than this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ piece of ♥♥♥♥ you dumb idiots who like this game ♥♥♥♥ you all btw?" No because that would be pointless and I realize that AoE 3 is not an awful game to a significant portion of the audience and that to a lot of people that concept worked really well.

And sure there is room for criticism when it comes to AoE 4, there are quite a few aspects that should be improved upon but "lol Jeanne d'Arc is a civ lol" is just a bad argument made in bad faith.

My point is - people always only go "AoE 2 v 4" and straight up ignore the other games.

The three campaigns from Asian Dynasties actually don't follow a fantasy plot and they added some historic battles in 3 DE.

And yeah, snaring definitely is a stupid mechanic and I'm glad it's gone in AoE 4.

I actually like the card system as it's like choosing your civ bonus and deciding when to use it. My main gripe with it was that you had to grind to unlock cards for Multiplayer which they gladly removed in DE.

I personally also find it weird to name a civ specifically after a character as they could've been a more elegant solution such as "Followers of Jeanne D'Arc" or similar

Originally posted by Plastic Master:

AOE 2 dont have Female character or a hero names as civilization.
It respects history, AOE IV spits on history.
That is the main difference!

AoE 4 still respects history as this is in Skirmish which by definition is a mode that's completely ahistorical.

May I remind you that Texas, one of the real world maps in AoE 2, is depicted as an Island and the devs added this description to the map:

Relive the classic Mayan and Korean skirmish over the Lone Star state

If AoE 4 did something similar, folks would probably cry how disrespectul this is.